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ProZ Find™ (new freelancer directory) released in alpha stage. Feedback sought.
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Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 11:57
English to Hungarian
+ ...
1 fact + a few questions May 14, 2018

Years at Proz.com

I have just found out that years at proz.com was counted differently on Proz Find than what you can see in your own profile. In Proz Find "Years at ProZ.com are not rounded up in ProZ Find."

Average rating

What does actually search based on "average rating" mean? When I set my search according to that criteria, ranking is getting illogical: the first in the ranking is someone who has a lot of WWAs and a few positive rating
... See more
Years at Proz.com

I have just found out that years at proz.com was counted differently on Proz Find than what you can see in your own profile. In Proz Find "Years at ProZ.com are not rounded up in ProZ Find."

Average rating

What does actually search based on "average rating" mean? When I set my search according to that criteria, ranking is getting illogical: the first in the ranking is someone who has a lot of WWAs and a few positive ratings then the next person who has 2 ratings and 2 positive ratings. Then the next people are also mixed: 2 or 3 WWAs and the comes somebody with more ratings and WWAs. This is messy.

What is more "valuable" on Proz Find? Ranking or rating? And what is actually the difference?
What is the logic behind "average rating" search function?



Last activity

What does last activity refer to?
Does it refer to the last activity what we can see when we click on our names at the top green menu (on the right corner)?
Or is this a bug?


My profile says last activity a minute ago. When I click on search based on Activity, my profile is not there, meanwhile I see people on the first page whose last activity (according to Proz Find!) was 5 days ago....



[Edited at 2018-05-14 09:52 GMT]
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..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 19:57
TOPIC STARTER
Ratings / Positive reviews May 14, 2018

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

Years at Proz.com

I have just found out that years at proz.com was counted differently on Proz Find than what you can see in your own profile. In Proz Find "Years at ProZ.com are not rounded up in ProZ Find."


In your profile it is displayed as a date (Sep 2001). In ProZ Find™ it is displayed as number of years at ProZ.com (16 years).

Screen Shot 2018-05-14 at 7.07.08 PM

Screen Shot 2018-05-14 at 7.09.51 PM

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
Average rating

What does actually search based on "average rating" mean? When I set my search according to that criteria, ranking is getting illogical: the first in the ranking is someone who has a lot of WWAs and a few positive ratings then the next person who has 2 ratings and 2 positive ratings. Then the next people are also mixed: 2 or 3 WWAs and the comes somebody with more ratings and WWAs. This is messy.


ProZ.com has had two feedback systems for translators. The first, WWA, accepted only positive reviews. The newest version, WWA ratings, allows reviewers to enter 1-5 stars.

Sorting by "average rating" sorts by the ratings only (all 5 stars first, sorted by number of entries, etc.).

Sorting by "positive reviews" sorts by positive reviews only (aka original WWAs)

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
What is more "valuable" on Proz Find? Ranking or rating? And what is actually the difference?
What is the logic behind "average rating" search function?



Ratings give more information than positive reviews (additionally the new ratings system allows outsourcers to leave details on the project - service, field, language pair, word count, etc.). One is not disadvantaged for having one or the other. You can expect that, going forward, a rating in a specific field and language pair will carry more weight (if the search is for that specific pair and field) than a general rating.

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
Last activity

What does last activity refer to?
Does it refer to the last activity what we can see when we click on our names at the top green menu (on the right corner)?
Or is this a bug?


My profile says last activity a minute ago. When I click on search based on Activity, my profile is not there, meanwhile I see people on the first page whose last activity (according to Proz Find!) was 5 days ago....



[Edited at 2018-05-14 09:52 GMT]


Thanks for pointing this out. I have removed the last activity sort. The last activity data is not refreshed often enough in the search index for that sort to be entirely accurate.


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 11:57
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Thank you for the answers, Kevin May 14, 2018

Years at proz.com.

Sorry, I meant not according to our profiles but according to the normal directory.
In the normal directory years are rounded. Anyway I just knew that my years at proz.com appeared in the directory as 17 years and now in Proz Find I saw 16 years.

Normal directory:

Screenshot-2018-5-14 English to Hungarian translators and interpreters - ProZ com

The difference between the 2 directories caused the misunderstanding.

Average ratings:

Thanks for the explanation.

According to the information you have just given my profile is ranked wrongly.
My profile is put on the 5th page.



[Edited at 2018-05-14 10:55 GMT]


 
Jo Macdonald
Jo Macdonald  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:57
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Still not working, still excluded from results May 14, 2018

Thanks for answering Kevin and Henry,
OK, so I set my rates and it's still not working.
I search for an Italian -> English Technical/Engineering translator with all the filters except location and I appear in the search results but as soon as I enter a rate I disappear from the results. I've tried the exact rates I set and many others and I never appear in the search results if the searcher enters rates.

Can you fix this before using this for clients looking for translat
... See more
Thanks for answering Kevin and Henry,
OK, so I set my rates and it's still not working.
I search for an Italian -> English Technical/Engineering translator with all the filters except location and I appear in the search results but as soon as I enter a rate I disappear from the results. I've tried the exact rates I set and many others and I never appear in the search results if the searcher enters rates.

Can you fix this before using this for clients looking for translators?
Thanks


[quote]Kevin Dias wrote:

Jo Macdonald wrote:

Hi Kevin,
I still have a problem with the rate filter.
If I apply the filter I show up in the searches but as soon as I enter a rate I no longer appear in the results.
I've tried many different rates and no dice.
I do not specify my rates in my profile, my rates are set to 0.00.
Can you fix this or explain what I have to change to appear in the results if someone enters rates?
Thanks


Hi Jo,

If your rates are not set (both minimum and standard rates are at 0.00) you will not show up in rate searches. If you want to appear in rate searches, you can set your rates here.

[quote]
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Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 18:57
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Ratings May 14, 2018

Lincoln Hui wrote:

- Integration of 1- to 5-star feedback (new in 2017)

I just requested feedback from a client, and they said they left a 5-star feedback, but I don't see anything on my end. While I saw the initial thread and I am aware that some people have been able to use it, I cannot find the feature anywhere and I would venture to guess that for many users the feature is simply invisible, period. In effect, the feature doesn't exist. You are basing a significant part of a highly visible site feature on something that doesn't exist.


So, the outsourcer and I went through a whole day of email back-and-forth and eventually figured out only with an email from ProZ staff that they had set the rating to be hidden from the public. I may say with some confidence that most outsourcers are going to have difficulty figuring out how to leave a visible rating for their providers.

I reiterate my point before - the ratings system, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist, because the majority of its key functionality is invisible to both the translator and client in the standard request feedback process.

And now this:

(additionally the new ratings system allows outsourcers to leave details on the project - service, field, language pair, word count, etc.)


Yeah, good luck trying to get most clients to figure this out, especially if they aren't regular users of the system.

The system, as it's current configured, does a disservice to both translator and client, requiring the translator to babysit or pester the client through the entire process. A good feedback system needs to be simple and easy, and right now it is not.

[Edited at 2018-05-14 12:24 GMT]


 
Mirko Mainardi
Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 11:57
Member
English to Italian
Already in use May 14, 2018

Jo Macdonald wrote:

Can you fix this before using this for clients looking for translators?


It IS already being used, and clients are being actively directed towards it (with popups, big ads over the "old" directory and whatnot).

However, maybe the changes you made to your rates require some time before they are "indexed" by the platform and used in new searches?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 06:57
SITE FOUNDER
Thanks, Katalin and Kay May 14, 2018

Thanks for the proposal of saving, Katalin. And thank you, Kay, for making the important point that "to tick the 'no native requirement' by default would be just as much a slippery slope as to tick the 'native target' by default."

Katalin, thank you also for bringing up the "native-level" issue. It is indeed relevant here. The ITI Code of Conduct says "4.1.1 Subject to 4.4 and 4.5 below, members shall translate only into a language which is either (i) their mother tongue or languag
... See more
Thanks for the proposal of saving, Katalin. And thank you, Kay, for making the important point that "to tick the 'no native requirement' by default would be just as much a slippery slope as to tick the 'native target' by default."

Katalin, thank you also for bringing up the "native-level" issue. It is indeed relevant here. The ITI Code of Conduct says "4.1.1 Subject to 4.4 and 4.5 below, members shall translate only into a language which is either (i) their mother tongue or language of habitual use, or (ii) one in which they have satisfied the Institute that they have equal competence." http://www.iti.org.uk/attachments/article/154/Code%20of%20Conduct%20-%20individual.pdf

We'll rework the option, taking into consideration these ideas and issues.
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 06:57
SITE FOUNDER
Going to reduce exposure of Find for a while May 14, 2018

Mirko Mainardi wrote:
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Can you fix this before using this for clients looking for translators?

It IS already being used, and clients are being actively directed towards it (with popups, big ads over the "old" directory and whatnot).

We are going to dial that back a bit today. We have enough data from public use to concentrate on making some improvements before increasing exposure again.

The sorting algorithm will be an area of focus.


 
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 11:57
Member (2008)
English to Czech
SITE LOCALIZER
new system May 20, 2018

Hello,

A few comments/questions for the staff:

1) Please advise what are all the criteria/parameters which are now considered for ranking. (I mean the default settings when searching for members by language combination, without adding any other criteria, and without removing any pre-set criteria.)

2) Please advise what is the weight/value of individual parameters in the overal mix at the moment. (E.g. in the past, KudoZ points = 100%. Now, KudoZ = ? %, WWA
... See more
Hello,

A few comments/questions for the staff:

1) Please advise what are all the criteria/parameters which are now considered for ranking. (I mean the default settings when searching for members by language combination, without adding any other criteria, and without removing any pre-set criteria.)

2) Please advise what is the weight/value of individual parameters in the overal mix at the moment. (E.g. in the past, KudoZ points = 100%. Now, KudoZ = ? %, WWA = ? %, ...)

(We were asked about feedback for the algorithm performance, but I'm not sure it is possible to say if it works as expected when it is not clear what rules are applied, and how.)

3) What is the "value" of old WWA (yes/no), compared to the new WWA (1-5 stars)? When the new algorithm sorts the results, is "yes" WWA in the old WWA system equivalent to 5-star WWA rating in the new WWA? Or is the star rating irrelevant and is it only the number (up to a specific capped amount per a certain period) of WWA entries (be these old, or new) that matters?

4) Does the capping of WWA entries and KudoZ points apply only to those collected since the capping rule was introduced, or retroactively to all past WWA entries and KudoZ points (including those collected before the capping rule existed)?

Thank you.
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Michele Fauble
Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:57
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
All good questions - awaiting answers May 21, 2018

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:

Hello,

A few comments/questions for the staff:

1) Please advise what are all the criteria/parameters which are now considered for ranking. (I mean the default settings when searching for members by language combination, without adding any other criteria, and without removing any pre-set criteria.)

2) Please advise what is the weight/value of individual parameters in the overal mix at the moment. (E.g. in the past, KudoZ points = 100%. Now, KudoZ = ? %, WWA = ? %, ...)

(We were asked about feedback for the algorithm performance, but I'm not sure it is possible to say if it works as expected when it is not clear what rules are applied, and how.)

3) What is the "value" of old WWA (yes/no), compared to the new WWA (1-5 stars)? When the new algorithm sorts the results, is "yes" WWA in the old WWA system equivalent to 5-star WWA rating in the new WWA? Or is the star rating irrelevant and is it only the number (up to a specific capped amount per a certain period) of WWA entries (be these old, or new) that matters?

4) Does the capping of WWA entries and KudoZ points apply only to those collected since the capping rule was introduced, or retroactively to all past WWA entries and KudoZ points (including those collected before the capping rule existed)?

Thank you.


 
Andy Watkinson
Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 11:57
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Hola. May 22, 2018

Hi Kevin.

I'd already seen this particular topic in the Forums section concerning our profiles, client searches and suchlike when it was first posted, but was deliberately trying to avoid it, as I have been doing with everything on this subject for the last 17 years.
Now. I'm not knocking the profile system per se as it's been a source of clients over the years (a Good Thing) but I do think it's been made unnecessarily complicated and demanding. Frankly, it reminds me of the
... See more
Hi Kevin.

I'd already seen this particular topic in the Forums section concerning our profiles, client searches and suchlike when it was first posted, but was deliberately trying to avoid it, as I have been doing with everything on this subject for the last 17 years.
Now. I'm not knocking the profile system per se as it's been a source of clients over the years (a Good Thing) but I do think it's been made unnecessarily complicated and demanding. Frankly, it reminds me of the type of client who makes exaggerated demands and promptly disappears. (a Bad Thing)

Anyway. Seeing it had run to 9 pages I decided to take a look and then went to check my profile page because I simply couldn't remember what it says. Within 3 seconds I received the following mail:


"Hi Andy,

I see that you have tried finding a language professional on ProZ.com. Did you know ProZ.com has a brand new search tool called ProZ Find? I am the developer of this tool and I want to make sure this new search is very useful to companies like yours that use ProZ.com to recruit. Would you mind giving it a try and providing some feedback, either in reply to this message, or by filling out this survey I've built? I'm basically wondering whether or not this new search tool represents an improvement. Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Kevin Dias

ProZ.com Team"


Well, no. I'm not trying to find a language professional. I thought I was one.
No, I don't have a company. I just type things in a different language.

Does anyone who checks out a profile here get the same email?
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Natalie
Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 11:57
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
SITE LOCALIZER
Yes May 22, 2018

Andy Watkinson wrote:
Does anyone who checks out a profile here get the same email?


Yes, I received the same automated unsolicited email immediately after I tried to compare the old directory search and the new Find feature.


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 11:57
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Exposure May 22, 2018

Andy Watkinson wrote:

Hi Kevin.

I'd already seen this particular topic in the Forums section concerning our profiles, client searches and suchlike when it was first posted, but was deliberately trying to avoid it, as I have been doing with everything on this subject for the last 17 years.
Now. I'm not knocking the profile system per se as it's been a source of clients over the years (a Good Thing) but I do think it's been made unnecessarily complicated and demanding. Frankly, it reminds me of the type of client who makes exaggerated demands and promptly disappears. (a Bad Thing)

Anyway. Seeing it had run to 9 pages I decided to take a look and then went to check my profile page because I simply couldn't remember what it says. Within 3 seconds I received the following mail:


"Hi Andy,

I see that you have tried finding a language professional on ProZ.com. Did you know ProZ.com has a brand new search tool called ProZ Find? I am the developer of this tool and I want to make sure this new search is very useful to companies like yours that use ProZ.com to recruit. Would you mind giving it a try and providing some feedback, either in reply to this message, or by filling out this survey I've built? I'm basically wondering whether or not this new search tool represents an improvement. Thank you for your time.

Best regards,

Kevin Dias

ProZ.com Team"


Well, no. I'm not trying to find a language professional. I thought I was one.
No, I don't have a company. I just type things in a different language.

Does anyone who checks out a profile here get the same email?



At least we know that Proz Find is live.
I didn't receive such an email.

Actually I received 2 visitors from Proz Find since Proz Find was launched: 8th of May and 9th of May.



[Edited at 2018-05-22 07:31 GMT]


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 06:57
SITE FOUNDER
The point of the algorithm. (Does it make sense to you?) May 22, 2018

Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
(We were asked about feedback for the algorithm performance, but I'm not sure it is possible to say if it works as expected when it is not clear what rules are applied, and how.)

Thanks for the attention to the sorting algorithm, Tomas. We could definitely use some more feedback there. Before getting into the detailed factors, I would welcome comments on the following general principles and assumptions.

(Even though a team has been involved in these decisions, I'll use "I" here, to speak for myself.)

* I believe that finding the person best suited for a given job (let's call this the "PBS") can make a big difference.
* I would say that the PBS is a person who is a top professional (quality/reliability), to begin with, and who also understands the material of the job very well.
* I believe that the PBS will be able to earn more (on a per-hour basis) on the job than a professional who is less well-suited to the job (and will therefore need to spend more time doing research.)
* For clients, finding the PBS can mean getting the job done better and faster, without necessarily an increase in cost.
* It is worth considering that the PBS may have linguistic resources (glossaries, TMs, trained MT engines) that will be useful in processing the job. (But this is not a pre-requisite.)
* The degree to which field-specific knowledge is a factor varies from job to job; some jobs can be done by just about any professional translator working in the pair, and others demand that the translator be an expert in the field.

If we were to consider a given "combination" (I use the word "combination" to refer to a translation niche characterized by a language pair and field of expertise) -- say, English to Spanish / Automotive -- the algorithm should identify the professionals most likely to be best suited to perform English to Spanish / Automotive jobs (the PBS's for this niche) and bring them to the top.

I would welcome your feedback on this way of thinking about the algorithm.

My questions:

- Do you agree with the above?
- Think of the "combinations" that you know best, and check the results in Find. Considering the professionals who you personally know in the area, is the algorithm doing a good job of bringing the best suited translators (PBS's) to the top?
- Are there people who the algorithm is bringing to the top who you know not to be well-suited to work in that combination? How do you know?
- Are there people that you think of as highly qualified in a certain combination, who the algorithm is not identifying? How do you know those people are capable in that combination?

If there is information you would like to share without posting here, feel free to email me directly. I'm Henry at ProZ.com.


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 11:57
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TMs, MTs and such things May 22, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:
....glossaries, TMs, trained MT engines) that will be useful in processing the job. (But this is not a pre-requisite.)


TMs and trained MT engines.... ?
Henry, there is already a platform for those.
If there are clients who are interested in those then they should be directed to TM-Town.
Proz.com should not be the place of exchanging and selling TMs and trained MTs etc.



[Edited at 2018-05-22 11:21 GMT]


 
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