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ProZ Find™ (new freelancer directory) released in alpha stage. Feedback sought.
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Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:45
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
I receive it automatically by email every month May 9, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

Jenny Forbes wrote:

This apparently experimental new directory listing method was not announced in Jared's latest newsletter, or even mentioned.
Why not? A wasted opportunity, it seems to me.


I didn't even know a newsletter existed!

How does one get it?


I suppose I receive it because I'm a paid-up "standard" member of Proz. Perhaps I "opted in" some time in the past, I can't remember now. I assumed that all paid-up members received it.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:45
French to English
no May 9, 2018

Jenny Forbes wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

Jenny Forbes wrote:

This apparently experimental new directory listing method was not announced in Jared's latest newsletter, or even mentioned.
Why not? A wasted opportunity, it seems to me.


I didn't even know a newsletter existed!

How does one get it?


I suppose I receive it because I'm a paid-up "standard" member of Proz. Perhaps I "opted in" some time in the past, I can't remember now. I assumed that all paid-up members received it.

No, I used to get it before becoming a paying member. Sorry I can't remember what I did to get it.


 
..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 16:45
TOPIC STARTER
On topic May 9, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

Jenny Forbes wrote:

This apparently experimental new directory listing method was not announced in Jared's latest newsletter, or even mentioned.
Why not? A wasted opportunity, it seems to me.


I didn't even know a newsletter existed!

How does one get it?


Tom, you know a newsletter exists. Please keep this on topic.
* https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/317735-securepro_update_list_of_security_practices_derived_from_securepro_cards.html#2672771
* https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_technical_support/301352-technical_problem_with_april_newsletter_staff_fixed.html#2546030

You can manage your notification settings here. Click on the box next to "Newsletter: I want to receive the monthly ProZ.com newsletter".


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Sorry Kevin May 9, 2018

Kevin Dias wrote:

Tom, you know a newsletter exists.


Oops- didn't I just say that I didn't know that a newsletter exists?

We seem to have got our lines crossed. The links you posted only point to forum topics.

In my understanding, a newletter is a document sent to subscribers. I receive many such, but not from Proz.

If there is a regular PRoz newsletter, published every month, I was not aware of it. Where can I sign up to receive it?

[Edited at 2018-05-09 07:57 GMT]


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:45
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Yes, Kevin, but ... May 9, 2018

... why wasn't the new directory ranking method announced or even mentioned in the newsletter? Lack of communication within Proz ... or what? Please look into this. It really isn't "off topic".

 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Unedited since 4 days
..... (X)
..... (X)
Local time: 16:45
TOPIC STARTER
May Newsletter May 9, 2018

Jenny Forbes wrote:

... why wasn't the new directory ranking method announced or even mentioned in the newsletter? Lack of communication within Proz ... or what? Please look into this. It really isn't "off topic".


Hi Jenny,

ProZ Find (alpha) was released and announced in May. It will appear in the May newsletter.


 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 07:45
Danish to English
+ ...
Here is someone who had no idea May 9, 2018

https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_directory/325148-proz_find.html

Christel Zipfel wrote:

In my visitors' tab I found the entry "came from ProZ Find".
Now what is this, please, the new name for the directory search? Never heard of and didn't find anything about it. Could someone please enlighten me?


I agree with others that it is not good enough that only those who happen to subscribe to the relevant forum are informed about important changes like this. Something like this should not be postponed to whenever the next general newsletter happens to be due.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 03:45
SITE FOUNDER
Usage is the main source of feedback May 9, 2018

Hi folks,

Thanks for the feedback here. We have dialed back a bit on promotion of Find, after an initial period of exposure, so that we are not prematurely directing people to something that is still very much evolving. (In particular, the sorting algorithm can be expected to progress.)

The wave of traffic that went to Find for a few days provides information that is valuable in tuning the application. As I've pointed out here in the past, it is not what is written here
... See more
Hi folks,

Thanks for the feedback here. We have dialed back a bit on promotion of Find, after an initial period of exposure, so that we are not prematurely directing people to something that is still very much evolving. (In particular, the sorting algorithm can be expected to progress.)

The wave of traffic that went to Find for a few days provides information that is valuable in tuning the application. As I've pointed out here in the past, it is not what is written here that most influences development, but rather, the usage patterns that we observe. (Also, people going to the application are invited to complete a survey.)

That said, the feedback here has been extremely valuable. Even though the number of people posting is low, the reaction in this format is an essential part of our release process. Please feel free to continue to share anything that crosses your mind.

The intention is to have Find replace both of the freelance directories currently in use. Every ProZ.com user will be notified by email with sufficient time to make any adjustments before this happens.
Collapse


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:45
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
@Kevin Dias - Please do not set default filters in the search criteria May 10, 2018

Kevin Dias wrote:

Yes, "native in target" is a default setting for most searches in ProZ Find.


Kevin, please do not make that setting, or in fact any filter settings default.
Doing that beats the purpose of finding the best match for the client's needs, according to the client's criteria. It is also against one of ProZ's cornerstones, which are very specific about not meddling with the business relationship between the parties. Setting certain filter criteria ON by default is "guiding" the search, meddling with the user-defined criteria that is the base of forming new business relationships. I think it is incompatible with ProZ fundamental philosophy.

I agree that being native in the target language (or the source language in some cases) is often an important criteria, so I suggest you include it for the client to specify. It would logically fit on the first page that asks for the language pair for the search.
I would put 3 radio-buttons there:
- require native in the target language
- require native in the source language
- no native language requirement (default)

Thanks
Katalin


 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:45
Russian to English
More comments May 10, 2018

jyuan_us wrote:
Do you believe someone who has collected 20 WWAs in a year is a quality translator?
To me, getting so many WWAs in a short time may imply that the translator has to look for new clients all the time because he is not able to keep his existing clients for a long time.


Well not necessarily. Some fields, by their very nature, produce a lot of one-off jobs. However, I can see that having ten times as many as most other people might look suspicious, yes.

Tom in London wrote:
Yes, that relates to a point I made earlier in the discussion (to which there has been no response):

What is the situation for very experienced translators who work for just a few clients over and over again, year in year out? Such translators (of which I am one) may have no WWA at all, or very few, and would never dream of pestering their clients by asking for a WWA rating.

How is this taken into account by the algorithm? Answers please.

Second question: what's to stop unscrupulous Proz members from giving WWA ratings to each other?

[Edited at 2018-05-08 06:49 GMT]


Good points. Another issue is that the system does nothing to reflect in-house translation experience, or experience outside translation. For example, a translator becoming self-employed after working at a law firm for a decade would find that experience little help here. Now, you could say that from ProZ's point of view it's only fair that those who have contributed to the site over the years are rewarded for this. But whether that's the best thing for clients is another matter.

How do the WWA ratings affect the search, by the way? Suppose one translator has 10 reviews and 3 ratings with an average of 4.67, but another translator has 18 reviews and 6 ratings with an average of 4.5? Who does better in the rankings? And how does the cap apply?

[Edited at 2018-05-10 06:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-05-10 06:58 GMT]


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 08:45
French to English
experience outside translation May 10, 2018

Alistair Gainey wrote:

The system does nothing to reflect in-house translation experience, or experience outside translation. For example, a translator becoming self-employed after working at a law firm for a decade would find that experience little help here. Now, you could say that from ProZ's point of view it's only fair that those who have contributed to the site over the years are rewarded for this. But whether that's the best thing for clients is another matter.

How do the WWA ratings affect the search, by the way? Suppose one translator has 10 reviews and 3 ratings with an average of 4.67, but another translator has 18 reviews and 6 ratings with an average of 4.5? Who does better in the rankings? And how does the cap apply?

[Edited at 2018-05-10 06:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2018-05-10 06:58 GMT]


I understand that Proz wants to reward its loyal customers and it's only fair (and I say that as someone who only became a paying member this year). Given how many translators there are around here, there have to be way of whittling the choice down. Long-time members also have plenty of experience, so that is a way of ensuring the client doesn't pick someone who's only just dipping their feet in and are not really serious about being a translator and don't care if things don't pan out.

Having set up my own business after working in-house for a long time, I made sure of mentioning that experience in my profile. I included that in the number of years I have been a translator.
Of course, working as a legal assistant in a law firm would be valuable experience for a legal translator, you can mention this experience in your profile too, even if it doesn't count as years spent working as a translator. Although if you did some translation work as an assistant, I would say you could add a few years, it could maybe count for a couple of years if you worked there for four or five?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Survey? May 10, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

.... people going to the application are invited to complete a survey


I took a look at ProzFind a couple of days ago but I didn't seen any invitation to complete a survey


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:45
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
Your point is strongly supported May 10, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

I would put 3 radio-buttons there:
- require native in the target language
- require native in the source language
- no native language requirement (default)

Thanks
Katalin


This is a great point. Making "native in target" a default setting might lead some users to believe that ProZ "endorses" the use of target language natives.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 03:45
SITE FOUNDER
Good idea, Katalin May 10, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
I agree that being native in the target language (or the source language in some cases) is often an important criteria, so I suggest you include it for the client to specify. It would logically fit on the first page that asks for the language pair for the search.
I would put 3 radio-buttons there:
- require native in the target language
- require native in the source language
- no native language requirement (default)

Thanks, Katalin. We will do this.


 
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