| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Job ads specifying female interpreters Thread poster: philgoddard
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Lincoln Hui 
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:06
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Tom in London wrote: Lincoln Hui wrote:
You can request that someone not smoke at work Here in the UK you don't need to do that. Smoking in the workplace is illegal.
Yes, and that was TOTALLY the point of my post.
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 12:06
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Smokers are not a protected *federal* class | Sep 5, 2013 |
Lincoln Hui wrote: Rudolf Vedo CT wrote: LilianBNekipelo wrote:
in the US, exactly like any native language requests, non-smoking requests, age specific requests would not be legal in the US.
For real? When did smokers become a protected class? Of course they are. You can request that someone not smoke at work, but you can't exclude people who smoke from applying to a job.
Sure you can, but not everywhere. Smokers are not a protected class (like gender, race, religion, etc.) under US federal law, but 29 states and DC offer protections to smokers under state law. Elsewhere, companies can indeed refuse to hire smokers.
Edit: I'm referring to the US only, can't speak for laws in other countries.
[Edited at 2013-09-05 13:05 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:06
Hebrew to English
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
In some countries in this day and age you would indeed risk being sued for stating that you didn't employ a woman because she wasn't enough of a looker for your liking.
The creepiness factor alone would be enough to make me (if I were a woman) run for the hills.
What I don't understand is why they didn't just advertise it as a general interpreting job disregard the men and then select the best looking woman who applied. Presumably they're going to have to sift through the female "contestants" anyway in some form of face-to-face interview since I highly doubt they're relying on self-assessment or a photo possibly taken 20 years ago on the looks front. Nobody would have been any the wiser and they wouldn't even risk the chance of litigation.
After doing a quick bit of googling for "female only interpreter" the front page of results were mostly Japanese and South East Asian, seems it's more of a norm over there, whereas it causes jaws to hit the floor in the West.
*Shudder*
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Ty Kendall wrote:
.... it causes jaws to hit the floor in the West.
Yes, and not because it's not "politically correct" but because it's just sad.
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Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
You're undermining your own argument here. If men can be competent - even expert - gynecologists, obstetricians and OB nurses, and work as corrections officers in women's prisons (all which is true), why on Earth couldn't a male interpreter work effectively in these circumstances? What's the difference?
I'm sorry to say what's going to follow, I know it will appear discourteous, but I need to say it anyway: equal employment rights are just not important like that, and especially making a statement of them is not important like that.
The difference is OB-GYNs and the corresponding nursing staff are generally professionals dedicated to the patient's health, even though in some cases they may be used solely to extract evidence for the government's case against that patient. On the other, unlike what American courts think, it's absolutely not necessary to guarantee the right of male corrections officers (or even male police officers, customs officers, airport guards etc. as long as the matter is not urgent and a female one can be obtained) to execute 'patting searches', forget strip searches or cavity searches.
Likewise, it is not necessary for a male interpreter to be there at the scene of the search as opposed to a female interpreter that can be obtained if the search is but delayed and perhaps the female interpreter paid a little extra on account of longer travel if there is one to make. It's just that the diversity, employment equality and other associated frenzy has been ruled to trump privacy (and privacy is often held to trump life when it comes to abortion issues, it just doesn't seem to trump equal employment) and common sense.
The answer comes down to modesty and privacy, both of which are important rights that not even prisoners lose fully.
For centuries, governments have used people's sexuality against them in punishment: disrobing them and displaying them naked in front of the general public; public castration (not just for rape, it was also included in the English penalty for treason); judicial or 'extrajudicial rape' (not only in the less educated parts of the Islamic word); use of rape as torture to extract information; treating women as spoils of war that belong to the victors... Heck, boys were treated like that too, and in the ancient times adult vanquished enemies. Now there's the 'porn scan' at airports, the strip-searching cops and the detention centres that take away your clothing and don't give it back.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| It occurs to me.... | Sep 5, 2013 |
It might be possible that someone specifically advertising for "a female interpreter" or indeed specifically advertising for "a male interpreter" might be some sort of maniac looking for...something else.
| | | | Martina Fink
New Zealand
Local time: 05:06
German to English
Tom in London wrote: Mario Cerutti wrote:
-----sometimes men find women more pleasant and interesting to talk with. .... Only if they laugh happily at everything I say, to show me how witty and charming they find me.
First decent laugh of the day! 
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Martina Fink wrote: First decent laugh of the day!
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philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Just in case anyone thought there might be legitimate reasons for specifying a woman, there weren't. The agency has apologized, and described the ad as a "mistake".
Of course the job will still go to a woman, who will no doubt be asked to provide a photograph, and the agency isn't going to upset the client by sending them lots of men. But at least ProZ (and the law in many countries) prevents them from being quite so blatant about this discrimination.
I was disappointed... See more Just in case anyone thought there might be legitimate reasons for specifying a woman, there weren't. The agency has apologized, and described the ad as a "mistake".
Of course the job will still go to a woman, who will no doubt be asked to provide a photograph, and the agency isn't going to upset the client by sending them lots of men. But at least ProZ (and the law in many countries) prevents them from being quite so blatant about this discrimination.
I was disappointed that some of you were prepared to stand up for sexism, but thanks for the interesting and lively debate.
[Edited at 2013-09-05 14:49 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-05 15:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 13:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
That sounds 100% hypocritical !
So, the requester is honest, knows exactly what he wants, but his ad is not PC. Therefore he gives a public apology for the ”mistake” but will hire exactly what he was looking for ... what a nice happy ending!
Lee
[Edited at 2013-09-05 19:50 GMT]
| | | | Mark Thompson
Brazil
Local time: 14:06
Member
Portuguese to English
| Please remain on topic and within site rules | Sep 5, 2013 |
An interesting, relevant and lively discussion on the issue in question.
I know feelings run high on a matter such as this, but without wishing to stifle healthy debate, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all users to keep all posts language/translation/interpreting related and on topic, without any personal or controversial comments on other posters or their opinions.
Site forum rules exist to protect the pleasant, results-oriented atmosphere of the ProZ.com t... See more An interesting, relevant and lively discussion on the issue in question.
I know feelings run high on a matter such as this, but without wishing to stifle healthy debate, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all users to keep all posts language/translation/interpreting related and on topic, without any personal or controversial comments on other posters or their opinions.
Site forum rules exist to protect the pleasant, results-oriented atmosphere of the ProZ.com translation workplace.
Please remember site rules # http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1,
http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4 and http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/5#5
And happy posting to all!
[Edited at 2013-09-05 15:42 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-05 15:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You didn't understand your own research | Sep 6, 2013 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
After doing a quick bit of googling for "female only interpreter" the front page of results were mostly Japanese and South East Asian, seems it's more of a norm over there, whereas it causes jaws to hit the floor in the West.
I did the same research as yours with Google and I found just a very few adds made by Indian recruiting companies for the same position. So, your conclusion that "it's more the norm over there" (or here in Japan as you seemed to imply) is completely mistaken.
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 01:06
Chinese to English
| I think Ty was probably right | Sep 6, 2013 |
Where I live, there is a strong presumption that the interlocutors will be male and the interpreter will be a young female. Can't speak for India or Japan.
| | | | | Please stop trying to judge what you are not able to | Sep 6, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
This may be news to you but in some countries, discriminating based on someone's gender and looks when this has no bearing on this person's ability to do a job is not considered a "freedom".
Are you forgetting the PR and TV world perhaps? How many examples in the PR can we find - everywhere, including in your own country - depicting very well the fact that in general good-looking woman are preferred over ugly ones (or old ones, for that matter)? And please tell me since I don't know: have you ever seen in such "socially advanced" countries ugly female TV announcers? Do you really believe that the CNN or the BBC would place a fat, unattractive woman in front of a camera even if professionally speaking she is far better than the others? If you were in charge for recruiting an announcer for a TV channel, would you really choose the professionally best one even if she is ugly? Would you really stand up against your share-holders who know very well that audience (revenues) would very likely fall? Please try to be honest with yourself first.
In some countries in this day and age you would indeed risk being sued for stating that you didn't employ a woman because she wasn't enough of a looker for your liking.
Are you satisfied with only not seeing such statements around? To what point are you able to judge intentions? I mean, employers avoid to state publicly that they prefer good-looking women, but in reality they do exactly what they want. Do you feel satisfied with only seeing the form preserved? Isn't this pure hypocrisy?
It is interesting though that you claim not to be a male chauvinist when you are clearly unable to see anything wrong with espousing the belief that women's sole purpose is to provide you with eye-candy. I think your English is the least of your concerns.
Please read my posts better: I never said that the *sole* purpose of women is to provide eye-candy. I only want to defend the principle according to which a private individual or a private company should be free to use their money as they wish, provided that they do not commit a crime. If one day a given country decided that this kind of choice is a crime, i.e. would prosecute not not only public statements but also real facts (if they were able to prove them), then it would be OK for me. Whether I would like to live in such country is another matter, though, because without being a sexist I still believe that I have the right to choose a good-looking female interpreter over an ugly one - and respect her fully in her role either as interpreter and a woman - and nobody should say anything about the way I decide to spend my money.
You are going too far in trying to judge my attitude towards society. If you still want to call me sexist then be my guest, but you are very wrong. And now I'm out.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:06
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Mario Cerutti wrote: Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
In some countries in this day and age you would indeed risk being sued for stating that you didn't employ a woman because she wasn't enough of a looker for your liking. Are you satisfied with only not seeing such statements around? To what point are you able to judge intentions? I mean, employers avoid to state publicly that they prefer good-looking women, but in reality they do exactly what they want. Do you feel satisfied with only seeing the form preserved?
It sounds to me like you two actually agree on this point.
I only want to defend the principle according to which a private individual or a private company should be free to use their money as they wish, provided that they do not commit a crime.
I happen to agree with you almost 100%.
However, in many countries it is indeed a crime to take gender into consideration when choosing a service provider, unless the gender (not the aspects of the gender but the gender itself) is a relevant consideration (e.g. when casting a female role in a film). It is therefore stupid to indicate or imply in any way that gender matters to you when you state your intention to hire (e.g. in an advertisement, or during the interviews). Even if it is not a business-to-business transaction.
One of these days it will be illegal in countries that allow gay marriage for people to indicate their preferred gender on dating sites...
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