| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Job ads specifying female interpreters Thread poster: philgoddard
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Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 15:23
French to English
| It's not a matter of professionalism, it's about hormones | Sep 5, 2013 |
Actually, Rudolf, it has been scientifically proven that the presence of males (however extensively trained) in a delivery room significantly slows and thus endangers the process of giving birth. It's not a matter of professionalism but quite simply the hormones that they secrete which are totally incompatible with birthing (testosterone, adrenaline in greater quantities...).
BTW I read about this in a book written by a man (Michel Odent).
This is also why women get bet... See more Actually, Rudolf, it has been scientifically proven that the presence of males (however extensively trained) in a delivery room significantly slows and thus endangers the process of giving birth. It's not a matter of professionalism but quite simply the hormones that they secrete which are totally incompatible with birthing (testosterone, adrenaline in greater quantities...).
BTW I read about this in a book written by a man (Michel Odent).
This is also why women get better results at milking cows than men: more milk, and tastier too. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Discrimination | Sep 5, 2013 |
I think most of us can agree that there are times when it would be more appropriate to have a female interpreter, especially in the healthcare setting and in some other circumstances where the end client is a woman and feels more comfortable in the presence of a female interpreter. It is, however, offensive for ads to state that someone must be good-looking. Who will judge? Here, I do not know what "pleasant presence" means. If it means the person is appropriately groomed, that is one thing, but... See more I think most of us can agree that there are times when it would be more appropriate to have a female interpreter, especially in the healthcare setting and in some other circumstances where the end client is a woman and feels more comfortable in the presence of a female interpreter. It is, however, offensive for ads to state that someone must be good-looking. Who will judge? Here, I do not know what "pleasant presence" means. If it means the person is appropriately groomed, that is one thing, but if it means that the woman must have a certain look, that is something else. If a female interpreter works in the courtroom, in a hospital, or in another professional setting, all that should matter is that she is competent and respectfully dressed for the setting. Things like hair color, age, and other physical attributes should not come into play. There is really no point in specifying "pleasant presence" in an ad because it does not add anything to the potential applicant's understanding of what is desired. As a woman, how am I supposed to know whether I meet a particular client's standards as far as appearance unless I actually meet with that client? As a Muslim woman who wears hijab, would I be qualified for the job provided that I dressed neatly and smartly? So, the language used in the ad has not really even filtered anything out. In fact, it only raises questions as to what the client actually means and wants. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Two related but separate issues | Sep 5, 2013 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter?
There are two issues here, namely discrimination in employment and discrimination in job advertisements. The irony is that many countries that have discrimination quotas also prohibit discrimination in job adverts. In countries with a male-female employment quota it is often illegal to specify male or female in a job advert, even if the company is legally required to hire a specific gender. It leads to a lot of wasted time and effort, but... that is the law.
It has become an art (or a cliche) to write job adverts that say everything we're not allowed to say. For example, if they want a female interpreter, they could say "We are looking for interpreters for rape counselling of female victims, and hereby invite applications from professional interpreters who are ideally suited to such a position" or "who meet those special requirements that such a position requires", etc.
You are allowed, privately, to choose a female interpreter because of her gender, but you're often not allowed to say so. If you do, then a male applicant can claim that you discriminated unfairly. If you simply choose the female and say that it is based on her qualifications, then you can get away with it. But either way, you can't (in many countries) say so in the job advert.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| May you specify the gender of your doctor? | Sep 5, 2013 |
Ania Heasley wrote:
...the same way they might request a female doctor while booking a sensitive medical appointment, as they feel more comfortable with a female only team of professionals.
Yes, of course, but I'm under the impression that there are regions where even this would be illegal.
If you're in a hospital and the hospital appoints a doctor to you, can you state your preference for the gender, race, age, etc of these doctors or not? Some may say "yes, if it is for a gender sensitive procedure" but others will pull the "qualifications" card, stating that gender does not affect whether the doctor can do the job properly.
In such places the only way to ensure you get your preferred gender is to specifically choose the services of a private practice that consists entirely of staff of your preferred gender.
[Edited at 2013-09-05 08:32 GMT]
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| Again on the so-called gender-discrimination | Sep 5, 2013 |
ATIL KAYHAN wrote: Mario Cerutti wrote:
So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter? To whom should I be expected to justify my choice? Would I lose the case if brought to Court? Just curious to know in which country this could happen.
They could sue you but they would probably lose the case. You would tell them that you preferred this particular candidate due to her (his) language skills, and not her (his) gender. You would probably convince them about it with details. We are assuming here that your job ad did not mention gender at all. So, it all depends upon how you defend the case.
OK, let's now suppose that for my next *private* trip to San Francisco (it could be a solo trip or with my wife, it doesn't matter now) I decide to hire a female guide interpreter. It's simple: in general I prefer female company over male company. That's it, it's my choice. This would be my "justification", should I be really required to provide one. Could the judge, if indeed brought to Court, really condemn me even if sexually-wise nothing happened?
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Gender discrimination | Sep 5, 2013 |
Max Deryagin wrote:
How exactly is this offensive?
Gender discrimination- the next step would be "Irish and dogs need not apply".
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Samuel Murray wrote:
If you're in a hospital and the hospital appoints a doctor to you, can you state your preference for the gender, race, age, etc of these doctors or not?
All I want is a good doctor - of any gender, race, age, whatever.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
ATIL KAYHAN wrote:
Unfortunately, there are no universally accepted rules for sexual discrimination. For example, it is definitely considered a sexual discrimination in the United States to explicitly specify sex of the applicant in the job ads. In Turkey, however, this is not so. Job ads are full of statements specifying sex (e.g. female interpreter required, etc.) in Turkey. I know this is frustrating but I do not know how to solve this dilemna other than saying that it is a cultural difference. Any suggestions will be welcome.
Well, if Turkey wants to join the EU they'll have to stop doing that, because it's illegal in the EU.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Claudia Cherici
Italy
Local time: 15:23
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| I can't believe it | Sep 5, 2013 |
I can't believe so many of you fail to see the gender discrimination here. And let's not kid ourselves, it is highly unlikely that these female interpreters who are requested to tick the infamous Italian "bella presenza" box will be asked to translate during an ob-gyn examination...it is just because the client wishes to hire someone female and easy on the eye. hence, the gender discrimination. it's only right to name and shame them.
| | | | | @mario - I think you're confusing interpreters with escorts | Sep 5, 2013 |
I think that as a female, I would be at best disinclined to answer a job ad specifically requiring a female (and especially if any kind of euphemism for "good-looking" is used in the ad).
This is not because I don't think that there are circumstances in which gender does make a difference and/or don't consider myself to fulfil the requirements.
This is because I would question the motives behind specifically wanting a good-looking female for the job, if these motives weren't... See more I think that as a female, I would be at best disinclined to answer a job ad specifically requiring a female (and especially if any kind of euphemism for "good-looking" is used in the ad).
This is not because I don't think that there are circumstances in which gender does make a difference and/or don't consider myself to fulfil the requirements.
This is because I would question the motives behind specifically wanting a good-looking female for the job, if these motives weren't clearly explained and understandable (to the reasonable man/woman on the Clapham omnibus).
Surely if the job requires interpreting, which involves rendering one language to another, it is the SKILLS of the PERSON that count, and not their age, race, gender, height, hair colour or any other other factor which is in my mind arbitrary to the task at hand.
Am I a better interpreter than a person with brown hair? It's impossible to say isn't it? This is because my hair colour has no effect on my ability to interpret.
I find specifying a gender preference for an interpreter questionable to say the least (whether this gender preference is for a man or a woman), since I believe that the job of an interpreter can be equally effectively carried out by people of either gender with the same skillset.
Your comment Mario about preferring the "company" of a woman over a man, while being of course perfectly acceptable as a personal choice, doesn't do much to explain the logic of this job ad since, if you want an interpreter (to interpret), you hire an interpreter and if it's company you want, you need to hire an escort. ▲ Collapse
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| Freedom, where are you? | Sep 5, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Mario Cerutti wrote:
So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter? You are allowed, privately, to choose a female interpreter because of her gender, but you're often not allowed to say so. If you do, then a male applicant can claim that you discriminated unfairly. If you simply choose the female and say that it is based on her qualifications, then you can get away with it. But either way, you can't (in many countries) say so in the job advert.
I have no doubt that in certain countries this would happen (how many I don't know, though), although I am very curious about the actual existence of laws made to prevent people from freely exercising a gender-related choice. But I still fail to understand why as a private individual I would be expected, contrary to public employers, to have such an obligation towards the society. On the other hand the talk here is about private transactions and in my opinion it's also a matter of basic freedom.
| | | | Laura Delia
Italy
Local time: 15:23
Member (2021)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Totally agree with Claudia | Sep 5, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
It may be that "pleasant presence" is a euphemism for "good-looking", but if the client behaves professionally it may actually mean exactly what it says, i.e. the person's dress and grooming must be suitable for the occassion and she must not have mannerisms that result in unnecessary tension.
eventually).
This may be the case in other countries, but in Italy this expression is always a euphemism. It means they want someone tall, good-looking and with a perfect body in the first place. This might be ok if you're looking for a model, not for an interpreter.
[Modificato alle 2013-09-05 09:20 GMT]
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 08:23
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Some freedom. | Sep 5, 2013 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
But I still fail to understand why as a private individual I would be expected, contrary to public employers, to have such an obligation towards the society. On the other hand the talk here is about private transactions and in my opinion it's also a matter of basic freedom.
I fail to understand why anyone would need or want the "basic freedom" to discriminate based on illegitimate and arbitrary criteria. What exactly do you believe your obligations to society to be, if these do not include actively or passively opposing obvious iniquity?
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