How do I ask someone to be a professional reference? Thread poster: Benjamin Weidelener
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Hello there,
as you know, many potential customers or clients ask for professional references, i.e., people you've work with before and who can attest that you're experienced at what you do.
As a freelance translator, I find myself in the situation that the only people with whom I work and who know how well I do my job are the project managers of the agencies I work for. I've been wanting to ask a couple of them if I could mention them as professional references, but it... See more Hello there,
as you know, many potential customers or clients ask for professional references, i.e., people you've work with before and who can attest that you're experienced at what you do.
As a freelance translator, I find myself in the situation that the only people with whom I work and who know how well I do my job are the project managers of the agencies I work for. I've been wanting to ask a couple of them if I could mention them as professional references, but it seems strange to me. After all, these potential customers are their competitors, and by helping me get more work from other people, they potentially lose a member of their pool.
Do you have any experiences in asking someone to be your professional reference? If so, how would you recommend going about it?
Thanks a lot in advance for your insight. By the way, this is my first post on ProZ, so apologies in advance if this question has already been asked.
Cheers,
Ben ▲ Collapse
| | | | William Bowley
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:21
Spanish to English
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Hi Ben,
If the project manager is someone you have a particularly positive working relationship or history with, then I can't see an issue with asking them to act as a reference.
A key factor to take into account is that your clients are your business, not that of any potential new agency. Other than mentioning (as accurately as possible, obviously) the volume and nature of your past work, as a freelancer there's no obligation to give anyone specific references, which i... See more Hi Ben,
If the project manager is someone you have a particularly positive working relationship or history with, then I can't see an issue with asking them to act as a reference.
A key factor to take into account is that your clients are your business, not that of any potential new agency. Other than mentioning (as accurately as possible, obviously) the volume and nature of your past work, as a freelancer there's no obligation to give anyone specific references, which is usually a box-ticking exercise for recruitment teams.
Offering up such references is only likely to give away free information on your other clients, which is of no benefit to you, but potentially of some value to competitors. This may even be discouraged by NDAs you have previously signed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | NDAs (bis repetita) | May 5, 2023 |
This question has already been asked indeed, but since it's your very first post down here you will likely be given the benefit of the doubt...
I do share William's point, in the sense that, for confidential reasons, you are not supposed to reveal to anyone with whom or on what project either you worked by the past, even at any recruitment team's demand, whatever the reason. Doing so, you will protect not only your own privacy, but also your clients' confidentiality.
N... See more This question has already been asked indeed, but since it's your very first post down here you will likely be given the benefit of the doubt...
I do share William's point, in the sense that, for confidential reasons, you are not supposed to reveal to anyone with whom or on what project either you worked by the past, even at any recruitment team's demand, whatever the reason. Doing so, you will protect not only your own privacy, but also your clients' confidentiality.
Not to mention that you might be still bound by legal provisions usually included in any NDA, in breach of which you may face legal actions for dammages. That's the way I easily dodge their intrusive questions... It works like a charm each time I object such an unquestionable argument. Then, as a miracle, the sheer production of my CV proves to be sufficient! Who said curiosity killed the cat, by the way?...
[Modifié le 2023-05-06 03:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun 
Sweden
Local time: 10:21
German to Swedish
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Benjamin Weidelener wrote:
Do you have any experiences in asking someone to be your professional reference? If so, how would you recommend going about it?
You just ask. Any professional would understand the request. There isn't the slightest confidentiality problem if it's a project manager at an agency. (I'd be much more hesitant to offer up testimony from steady non-agency customers.)
Of course you need to have done a lot of work together before asking. I don't think I'd ask anyone who I hadn't worked with regularly for 1-2 years.
With some agencies you develop close relationships: rush jobs, agreeing on changes, handling the occasional difficult client, bailing them out when someone turns in a bad translation etc. That's the type to ask for references. They'll be happy to help you develop as a professional. Other agencies are just middlemen with whom you have next to no contact beyond the PO. I wouldn't ask those.
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| WWA on your profile or possibly an association such as the CIoL | May 5, 2023 |
Welcome to the Forums!
I have said this before, but here it comes again: I never give references, and I would not want to keep asking clients to spend time on it - you will presumably be working for lots of clients, and it would be quite unreasonable to ask for references every time you find a new one!
Some translators ask clients to give them feedback as a WWA (willing t... See more Welcome to the Forums!
I have said this before, but here it comes again: I never give references, and I would not want to keep asking clients to spend time on it - you will presumably be working for lots of clients, and it would be quite unreasonable to ask for references every time you find a new one!
Some translators ask clients to give them feedback as a WWA (willing to work again) on their profiles. https://www.proz.com/wwa
Other clients even volunteer, especially if you give them a 5 on the Blue Board.  But only do that if they deserve it!
You can then refer to WWAs on your profile, without putting clients directly in touch with each other. You are still revealing who you have worked for, so they may not all be interested, but some don´t mind.
I am a member of the British CIoL (Chartered Institute of Linguists), and when I applied, I had to give two references, but here my employer at the time and a colleague were happy to oblige. There was no question of rivalry between them, as the CIoL does not actually provide language services.
I later became a Chartered Linguist, and again needed two references, and two clients were happy to provide them, so they are more recent.
If new clients ask me for references, I give them links to my profile on this site and my Chartered Linguist certificate. That usually works.
I don´t know whether the BDÜ in Germany does anything like that. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 10:21
French to English
When I worked as a PM, I was asked several times to act as a reference for translators. Luckily for me they were all translators whose work I admired.
Once it was for a legal translator applying for a job at the international court in the Hague. A woman actually called me to check the reference. I gave glowing accounts of how the translator was fully reliable, a damn good translator to the point that proofreading her work was needless and boring, a pleasant person to deal with. The woman ... See more When I worked as a PM, I was asked several times to act as a reference for translators. Luckily for me they were all translators whose work I admired.
Once it was for a legal translator applying for a job at the international court in the Hague. A woman actually called me to check the reference. I gave glowing accounts of how the translator was fully reliable, a damn good translator to the point that proofreading her work was needless and boring, a pleasant person to deal with. The woman said "you do realise you'll no longer be able to work with her if we hire her?" and I said that I did realise it, but it was a matter of wanting to see someone with true talent rise to the top of her field.
She got the job. She then moved to another job for the European parliament in Strasbourg, and I'm delighted that she has the success she deserves.
If you simply want to find more clients as a freelancer, the problem of no longer being able to benefit from your services doesn't even apply. So go ahead and ask!
As a freelancer, I asked two people to give me WWA ratings and they did. They both get priority if I have to juggle jobs because they are great clients.
[Edited at 2023-05-06 07:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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When I decided some years ago to have a website, I did ask some of my long-standing customers if they minded giving me “a little pat on the back”. They all did. So, when some potential clients ask me for references I point them to my website, to my WWAs on Proz, and to my position on the Kudoz leader board…
P.S. I’ve just remembered that when almost everything was done by fax some of my clients used to send a little note about the translation (most of the time positive, than... See more When I decided some years ago to have a website, I did ask some of my long-standing customers if they minded giving me “a little pat on the back”. They all did. So, when some potential clients ask me for references I point them to my website, to my WWAs on Proz, and to my position on the Kudoz leader board…
P.S. I’ve just remembered that when almost everything was done by fax some of my clients used to send a little note about the translation (most of the time positive, thankfully), but when things shifted from fax to email somehow that habit got lost…
Good luck! ▲ Collapse
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I had a look at your Proz profile and I wonder why your CV is titled Estonian?
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 11:21
Member
English to Turkish
There is nothing wrong with asking the PMs with whom you have good relationships to act as your referees, though you'll find that the majority of people on these forums are dead against this idea for some unfathomable reason.
I think having someone to vouch for you is a lot better way of judging a translator's quality than being asked to take a random 300 word translation test where you're not guaranteed to have a fair, impartial evaluation (agency's freelance translator in your language ... See more There is nothing wrong with asking the PMs with whom you have good relationships to act as your referees, though you'll find that the majority of people on these forums are dead against this idea for some unfathomable reason.
I think having someone to vouch for you is a lot better way of judging a translator's quality than being asked to take a random 300 word translation test where you're not guaranteed to have a fair, impartial evaluation (agency's freelance translator in your language pair will likely have a 'conflict of interest').
You say "these potential customers are their competitors, and by helping me get more work from other people, they potentially lose a member of their pool". I find this way of thinking very strange. As a freelancer, you're supposed get into the books of as many translation agencies as possible to get work, so by getting into an agency's database do you lose your spot in another's? This doesn't make any sense.
Ask a few PMs to act as your referees, but try to use them as sparingly as possible to make less of a nuisance of yourself (they probably won't appreciate writing emails on your behalf every other week).
And this is very important (speaking from experience): if an agency asks you to produce referees and take a translation test, take the test first (and stress the fact that you want a fair assessment, preferably by a third party outside the agency, who has no ongoing financial relationship with that agency) and then give the details of your referees, don't do it the other way around. Because if you fail the test, your referees will have been bothered for nothing. ▲ Collapse
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