Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
inventaire contradictoire
English translation:
uncontested inventory
French term
inventaire contradictoire
Any ideas?
Thank you!
Proposed translations
uncontested inventory
[un inventaire] contradictoire = an "uncontested" inventory, as all interested parties had the opportunity to object, and presumably didn't object (to the finally agreed version of the inventory).
I would understand here "un inventaire contradictoire" as "all the interested parties had the opportunity to check the accuracy of the inventory", by analogy with
− DR(oit). [En parlant d'un procès, d'une enquête] Où les parties antagonistes ont pu s'exprimer. Anton. par défaut :
4. Le tribunal d'Angoulême, ému par la belle plaidoirie de Cachan, rendit un jugement contradictoire entre toutes les parties, qui donna la propriété des meubles meublants seulement à Madame Séchard, repoussa les prétentions de Séchard père et le condamna net à payer quatre cent trente-quatre francs soixante-cinq centimes de frais. Balzac, Les Illusions perdues,1843, p. 611.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/contradictoire#:~:text=− DR....
In practical terms it would mean that this inventory is "uncontested" - as all those who could raise any objection had the opportunity to do so, and presumably did not.
IOW, however it may seem contradictory to the common meaning of "contradictoire", HERE "contradictoire" would in fact mean that there is no contradiction between what parties involved have to say about this inventory.
neutral |
Mpoma
: I see where you're coming from but for me this is too needlessly implicit about the notion of multiple parties actively being brought in to do their thing.
7 hrs
|
It's only CL3, so I'm not saying that's a perfect translation, but should be good enough.
|
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: The crux is agreement, not absence of dispute
10 hrs
|
There is an agreement because there was no dispute, or there is no longer a dispute. So as the end result it's "uncontested"//The "contradictoire" bit is about the opportunity to contest, so "no dispute" is an important element.
|
|
agree |
Francois Boye
20 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
inventory in the presence of both parties
In this case, only one person's belongings are involved. This man has designated an executor for his will to draw up an inventory of his possessions, but the inventory is then confirmed and signed by multiple parties due to the value of the objects that end up going for sale. |
neutral |
Emmanuella
: in the presence of all parties
5 mins
|
neutral |
writeaway
: No refs to back so much confidence? Admittedly, this has already been asked umpteen times
1 hr
|
neutral |
Daryo
: "... of ALL parties ..." // What makes you presume that there are ALWAYS only 2 parties involved?
6 hrs
|
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: Asker said there were "multiple people" who signed so your answer is plainly wrong
2 days 53 mins
|
physical estate inventory (hist. 'polyptych') drawn up inter partes
1. there is only one ProZ entry for both words and that has already been alluded to in the Discussion Entries, including by any anti-Latinists : as per the first weblink below but 2. it's not drawn up by each of the parties, but is a multipartite event called in US litigation 'omnibus action' 3. and that does not refer to an estate - rather a restaurant - stock list 4. 19th century text suggests digging deep into Anglo-American probate (Scots law: Confirmation of Wills) history. Cut to mediaeval 'polyptychs' in the first example sentence.
Anyway, the PRs - personal representatives (executors of Will and adminsitrators on intestacy) are required by s. 25 of the UK Administration of Estates Act 1925, to draw up a full inventory (Law Dictionary, L.B. Curzon). For practical reasons in England & Wales + Scotland and NI, traditionally it need not be agreed and signed off by all the potential beneficiaries who may well turn out to be contestors of the Will: claimants / vexatious litigants.
English Medieval Probate Inventories *These estate inventories or polyptychs*, recorded and valued land, buildings, objects, tenants, and other assets and functioned to ratify or stand as testament to the legal ownership of the recorded property.
inter partes: between the parties. Used *in particular* (but not only) in relation to court proceedings where both sides are present in court (as in a hearing inter partes). Cf ex parte.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/bus-financial/600876-inventaire-contradictoire.html
http://sintons.co.uk/personal-family-probate/inventory-and-account/
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Ah yes, medieval probate, what about doomsday surveys and Anglo-Saxon shire moots?
3 hrs
|
neutral |
philgoddard
: I thought 'privet' was weird, but you've really excelled yourself with 'polyptych'.
9 hrs
|
neutral |
Daryo
: As far as I can find a 'polyptych' is usually some work of art made on several panels joined by hinges. // Even with a lot of "creative thinking", I can't see WHERE would be the connection between that and a document deemed to be "contradictoire"???
10 hrs
|
inventory signed off by several (independent) parties
As you say, this is just one person who is doing the initial inventory. So quite different to an inspection report where you actually have representatives from more than one interested party doing an inspection at the same time.
The main idea behind "contradictoire" is that more than one party/person is involved: Jugement contradictoire: "after due hearing of the parties" in a court case context. That expression demonstrates that there is no requirement of simultaneity: the "contradictoire" thing can be grafted on after the fact.
agreed (estate)inventory
joint inventory
Joint inventory is a past answer and the one I would go for.
Discussion
I have no interest in reinventing the wheel - that would be definitely a waste of time.
But I'm neither ready to blindly accept that s.t. is a wheel just because s.o. said it's one - "checking at the source" is never a waste of time. Proz glossaries are at best no more than a good starting point, NOT any kind of "definite reference".
And even the perfectly good glossary entries are not necessarily about the term used in the same or comparable context.
Proz glossaries CAN be very useful, but I wouldn't put a priori a blind trust in any of them.
More to the point as far as this ST is concerned: how many of these 168 glossary entries are about the 19th century version of French?
' Toutes les personnes intéressées doivent être impliquées dans le processus'.
https://www.infodelimmo.com/5-choses-a-savoir-sur-l-inventai...