Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

inventaire contradictoire

English translation:

uncontested inventory

Added to glossary by Una D.
Apr 16 17:03
25 days ago
32 viewers *
French term

inventaire contradictoire

French to English Law/Patents Finance (general) will and testament
Context (19th century text) : a named executor of a will says "Soyez assuré que je ferai pour vous un inventaire en ordre et contradictoire, de manière à vous établir vos richesses." This is an inventory signed by multiple people to confirm that it is proper and correct, so I know that this is the meaning of "contradictoire" but I have seen various (contradictory - haha) definitions of terms like "joint inventory", "counter-inventory" and "concurrent inventory", and I'm not sure which is the correct one here.

Any ideas?
Thank you!

Discussion

Una D. (asker) Apr 17:
I did see there were other glossary entries, but they didn't seem to apply to the same scenario. Here, only one person's belongings are involved. This man has designated an executor for his will to draw up an inventory of his possessions, but the inventory is then confirmed and signed by multiple parties due to the value of the objects that end up going for sale.
Daryo Apr 17:
We obviously don't have the same definition of what is "the same".

I have no interest in reinventing the wheel - that would be definitely a waste of time.

But I'm neither ready to blindly accept that s.t. is a wheel just because s.o. said it's one - "checking at the source" is never a waste of time. Proz glossaries are at best no more than a good starting point, NOT any kind of "definite reference".
philgoddard Apr 17:
Daryo I know you're happy to go on answering the same questions over and over again, but some of us consider them a waste of time.
Daryo Apr 16:
168 glossary entries ... So what? A not negligible number of entries in the Proz glossaries are pure nonsense selected by askers who found themselves hopelessly out of their depth.

And even the perfectly good glossary entries are not necessarily about the term used in the same or comparable context.

Proz glossaries CAN be very useful, but I wouldn't put a priori a blind trust in any of them.

More to the point as far as this ST is concerned: how many of these 168 glossary entries are about the 19th century version of French?
philgoddard Apr 16:
Yes There are 168 glossary entries for this word.
Emmanuella Apr 16:
Inventaire ( réalisé de manière ) contradictoire
' Toutes les personnes intéressées doivent être impliquées dans le processus'.

https://www.infodelimmo.com/5-choses-a-savoir-sur-l-inventai...

Proposed translations

+1
10 hrs
French term (edited): un inventaire contradictoire
Selected

uncontested inventory

or mutually agreed / cross-checked / joint inventory


[un inventaire] contradictoire = an "uncontested" inventory, as all interested parties had the opportunity to object, and presumably didn't object (to the finally agreed version of the inventory).


I would understand here "un inventaire contradictoire" as "all the interested parties had the opportunity to check the accuracy of the inventory", by analogy with

− DR(oit). [En parlant d'un procès, d'une enquête] Où les parties antagonistes ont pu s'exprimer. Anton. par défaut :
4. Le tribunal d'Angoulême, ému par la belle plaidoirie de Cachan, rendit un jugement contradictoire entre toutes les parties, qui donna la propriété des meubles meublants seulement à Madame Séchard, repoussa les prétentions de Séchard père et le condamna net à payer quatre cent trente-quatre francs soixante-cinq centimes de frais. Balzac, Les Illusions perdues,1843, p. 611.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/contradictoire#:~:text=− DR....

In practical terms it would mean that this inventory is "uncontested" - as all those who could raise any objection had the opportunity to do so, and presumably did not.

IOW, however it may seem contradictory to the common meaning of "contradictoire", HERE "contradictoire" would in fact mean that there is no contradiction between what parties involved have to say about this inventory.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Mpoma : I see where you're coming from but for me this is too needlessly implicit about the notion of multiple parties actively being brought in to do their thing.
7 hrs
It's only CL3, so I'm not saying that's a perfect translation, but should be good enough.
neutral AllegroTrans : The crux is agreement, not absence of dispute
10 hrs
There is an agreement because there was no dispute, or there is no longer a dispute. So as the end result it's "uncontested"//The "contradictoire" bit is about the opportunity to contest, so "no dispute" is an important element.
agree Francois Boye
20 hrs
Thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, this works well I think."
-1
12 mins

inventory in the presence of both parties

Ma contribution
Note from asker:
In this case, only one person's belongings are involved. This man has designated an executor for his will to draw up an inventory of his possessions, but the inventory is then confirmed and signed by multiple parties due to the value of the objects that end up going for sale.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Emmanuella : in the presence of all parties
5 mins
neutral writeaway : No refs to back so much confidence? Admittedly, this has already been asked umpteen times
1 hr
neutral Daryo : "... of ALL parties ..." // What makes you presume that there are ALWAYS only 2 parties involved?
6 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : Asker said there were "multiple people" who signed so your answer is plainly wrong
2 days 53 mins
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3 hrs

physical estate inventory (hist. 'polyptych') drawn up inter partes

Notes:

1. there is only one ProZ entry for both words and that has already been alluded to in the Discussion Entries, including by any anti-Latinists : as per the first weblink below but 2. it's not drawn up by each of the parties, but is a multipartite event called in US litigation 'omnibus action' 3. and that does not refer to an estate - rather a restaurant - stock list 4. 19th century text suggests digging deep into Anglo-American probate (Scots law: Confirmation of Wills) history. Cut to mediaeval 'polyptychs' in the first example sentence.

Anyway, the PRs - personal representatives (executors of Will and adminsitrators on intestacy) are required by s. 25 of the UK Administration of Estates Act 1925, to draw up a full inventory (Law Dictionary, L.B. Curzon). For practical reasons in England & Wales + Scotland and NI, traditionally it need not be agreed and signed off by all the potential beneficiaries who may well turn out to be contestors of the Will: claimants / vexatious litigants.

Example sentence:

English Medieval Probate Inventories *These estate inventories or polyptychs*, recorded and valued land, buildings, objects, tenants, and other assets and functioned to ratify or stand as testament to the legal ownership of the recorded property.

inter partes: between the parties. Used *in particular* (but not only) in relation to court proceedings where both sides are present in court (as in a hearing inter partes). Cf ex parte.

Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : Ah yes, medieval probate, what about doomsday surveys and Anglo-Saxon shire moots?
3 hrs
neutral philgoddard : I thought 'privet' was weird, but you've really excelled yourself with 'polyptych'.
9 hrs
neutral Daryo : As far as I can find a 'polyptych' is usually some work of art made on several panels joined by hinges. // Even with a lot of "creative thinking", I can't see WHERE would be the connection between that and a document deemed to be "contradictoire"???
10 hrs
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18 hrs

inventory signed off by several (independent) parties

... is what occurs to me on reading your discussion post.

As you say, this is just one person who is doing the initial inventory. So quite different to an inspection report where you actually have representatives from more than one interested party doing an inspection at the same time.

The main idea behind "contradictoire" is that more than one party/person is involved: Jugement contradictoire: "after due hearing of the parties" in a court case context. That expression demonstrates that there is no requirement of simultaneity: the "contradictoire" thing can be grafted on after the fact.
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19 hrs

agreed (estate)inventory

I don't see the need for anything more complicated

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1 day 22 hrs

joint inventory

I don't see why people make things hard with translations like "uncontested inventory" when it may have been heavily contested.
Joint inventory is a past answer and the one I would go for.
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