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Feu sur la démocratie, feue la démocratie
parts ouvrières
Jul 17, 2022 08:46
1 yr ago
52 viewers *
French term

ce n’est pas un geste

French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Architecture
Just wondering how you would translate ‘ce n’est pas un geste’ in this sentence?

Cette forme organique résulte de la conception
du bâtiment, ce n’est pas un geste mais la conséquence d’un
processus qui articule les trois salles sur un terrain qui a sa
singularité.

Thanks.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 not a nod to anything in particular
4 +2 it's not an empty gesture
4 +1 more complex than it appears on the surface
4 This isn't just a trivial matter
4 incidental matter
4 it is not down to chance (or luck)
3 it is not a flick of the wrist
3 Not arbitrary
3 it is not (simply) a statement
3 it's not just design tokenism
Change log

Jul 17, 2022 10:03: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "Architecture"

Jul 18, 2022 00:18: philgoddard changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Wolf Draeger, Jennifer Levey, philgoddard

Non-PRO (1): Jocelyne Cuenin

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Discussion

Steve Robbie Jul 19, 2022:
@Wolf In your first comment below, you used the phrase "just for show".
"This is not merely for show..." is actually a good translation and I think you should post it.
Johannes Gleim Jul 18, 2022:
I think that the subject does not deal with anti-rasism by taking the knees, but with architecture.
Wolf Draeger Jul 18, 2022:
Thanks Samuël For digging up the text and context we should have asked for at the outset.
Cyril Tollari Jul 18, 2022:
And " Le hall d’accueil vient se glisser sous le bâtiment, c’est un espace souple qui distribue les salles et offre une lisibilité immédiate des espaces. Deux niveaux de rez-de-chaussée permettent la gestion des différents flux, c’est une disposition que nous utilisons souvent dans nos projets de bâtiments sportif ou de spectacle. Le rez-de-chaussée haut est celui du public : on entre dans les salles par le haut, c’est une solution accueillante qui offre une perception globale de l’espace dès que l’on pénètre dans la salle, on est en surplomb, c’est un peu théâtral… Le rez-de-chaussée bas est celui des utilisateurs, des sportifs, il donne de l’autre côté sur la cour technique et sur tout ce qui est lié au fonctionnement. Les trois salles communiquent aussi bien par le niveau de l’entrée du public que par le bas, au niveau du parterre, et l’on peut passer de l’une à l’autre en permanence. Cela permet des utilisations simultanées dans le cadre de certaines manifestations ou évènements."
Samuël Buysschaert Jul 18, 2022:
HTH/Fwiw That should help clarify things:
(further down in the text)
"Cette forme organique [...]

"Nous ne sommes donc pas partis d’une forme a priori, mais de choix en termes d’organisation en plan et en coupe, et de relations avec le site et ses caractéristiques.
Il y a notamment cette haie bocagère de chênes contre laquelle le bâtiment vient se lover. Lorsqu’on arrive du parking le bâtiment se découvre progressivement à travers ce cadre naturel, tandis que côté rocade il s’affirme plus imposant, à l’échelle du paysage et du territoire."
https://chroniques-architecture.com/laval-espace-mayenne-her...
Cyril Tollari Jul 18, 2022:
My take Geste may also relate to shape with esthetics in mind. The architect's intent was to design with function in mind (ie not shape/esthetics).
https://www.meubliz.com/definition/geste/
Lisa Rosengard Jul 17, 2022:
I believe that a gesture is a deliberate action. In the dictionary it's a movement to convey a meaning. I understand: 'The architectural concept of the design for the building is not a gesture but the result of a process that articulates the 3 rooms of the building on its unique ground.'
Wolf Draeger Jul 17, 2022:
Geste = deliberate action? My first reading of geste here was of something random, arbitrary or just for show. But I'm not sure that fits the sentence. Instead, I think it means the architect didn't have a particular shape of the building in mind. Rather, the building's 'organic' shape was dictated by its use and the land it's on. A form follows function sort of thing.

Proposed translations

+2
9 hrs
Selected

not a nod to anything in particular

As I understand it, the ST is saying that, in contrast to numerous other building projects where the architect has tried to reflect something that relates to the building's purpose, its owner, the surrounding landscape, etc, the configuration of this building has been been governed (primarily/solely) by the characteristics of the land it stands on.

The organic form .... is not a nod to anything in particular; rather it is a consequence of a process involving the placement of the three halls around a site.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=YlrwDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA315&lpg=P...
The architectural design of the building top was inspired by the neo-Gothic design of Tribune Tower—a nod to the rich history of Chicago architecture ...
Peer comment(s):
disagree James A. Walsh : Perturbed as I may be with this term, I certainly cannot arrive at this interpretation!
3 hrs
agree Wolf Draeger : I think you're on to something. As in the form was inevitable rather than deliberate.
3 hrs
Exactly... :)
agree philgoddard : I'm not totally sure about this, but it makes sense. You could also say "statement". "Geste" can be very tricky to translate.
6 hrs
agree Jocelyne Cuenin : As Phil says, un geste architectural can be seen as a statement. //Sorry, I did not want to rate it as non pro and I don't know how to cancel it.
1 day 16 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
17 mins

it is not a flick of the wrist

Ceci pour donner une idée de quelque chose de non planifié, superflu, sans signification particulière.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I don't think the register really fits here, and in any case, I think the sense is really more that of 'a mere token gesture' — 'paying lip-service to something'
6 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : I think this sounds too casual
6 hrs
neutral James A. Walsh : Yep, way too casual
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

This isn't just a trivial matter

What is a trivial matter?
of very little importance or value; insignificant: Don't bother me with trivial matters. commonplace; ordinary.
Does trivial mean easy?
Trivial is not the same as easy. It means unimportant or insignificant.
Just a suggestion, cordially, of course.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 ώρες (2022-07-17 12:14:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And this isn't just a trivial matter, because what we're talking here in this case has to do about aesthetic architecture of a certain building. The aesthetics of a building is one of the principal aspects considered in architecture. The appeal of a building covers the combined effects of a building's shape, size, texture, colour, balance, unity, movement, emphasis, contrast, symmetry, proportion, space, alignment, pattern, decoration, culture and context.
The practice of architectural design is used to meet both functional and artistic needs, therefore serving both practical and creative goals and this is exactly why this isn't something about a trivial matter.
Something went wrong...
+1
4 hrs

more complex than it appears on the surface

Using the literal "gesture" (or "superficial gesture") makes me feel more than just a little uncomfortable in this case. Although I did, initially, think about "mere gesture" as a possibility.
Peer comment(s):
agree Emmanuella
2 hrs
Merci beaucoup, Emmanuella.
neutral AllegroTrans : That can be deduced from the phrase but it's not what it says
2 hrs
As a translator, I'm more concerned about accuracy and meaning.
Something went wrong...
5 hrs

incidental matter

Another interpretation:

This organic form results from the conception of the building, it is not an incidental matter but the consequence of a process that articulates the three halls on one site with its uniqueness.
Something went wrong...
+2
59 mins

it's not an empty gesture

It's not something done for no particular reason, or to impress for the sake of impressing, etc., it's there for a definite reason and has been thought out. It's not an empty gesture.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2022-07-17 17:56:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'Empty gesture' as it is used here, for instance:
https://www.shoutoutuk.org/2021/07/19/taking-the-knee-is-no-...
Note from asker:
Thank you, and thanks to Tony as well, who said something similar in a comment.
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans
1 hr
agree Conor McAuley
2 hrs
neutral philgoddard : I understand empty gesture to mean a meaningless promise. "It's there for a reason" would make sense, though.
6 hrs
See added note above.
neutral James A. Walsh : Agree with Phil on his understanding and the register of 'empty gesture' here...
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs
French term (edited): ce n’est pas un geste

it is not down to chance (or luck)

Another option to consider...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2022-07-17 20:50:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I do find this question quite perplexing, given the limited context, but I've pondered it much and do believe it boils down to this in English.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2022-07-17 21:01:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Cette forme organique résulte de la conception du bâtiment, ce n’est pas un geste mais la conséquence d’un processus qui…"

“This organic form is built into the building; it is not down to chance or luck, but the result of a design process that…”
Reference:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22not+down+to+chance%22&ei=SW_UYt75PJGYsAewtqwo&ved=0ahUKEwiewov534D5AhURDOwKHTAbCwUQ4dUDCA8&uact=5&oq=%22n

Something went wrong...
1 day 39 mins
French term (edited): Not arbitrary e n’est pas un geste

Not arbitrary

Many suggestions and here's another, i.e. the feature has been thought out, beyond a mere whim sort of idea
Something went wrong...
5 days
French term (edited): ce n’est pas un

it is not (simply) a statement

suggestion
Something went wrong...
8 days

it's not just design tokenism

My understanding is that the architet's choice is the result of the architect's own vision and it has a purpose understandable in terms of design and function. It's not there just to signal. I've found it used in two different context referring to different notions. In the first link is an article about a regulation for reducing carbon footprint in building, which would not make architectural sense, according to the author. The second is about design in home electronics equipment, and the tension between the decorative and functional aspects thereof.
I had the idea of proposing this translation and then looked up any hits, so you may want to read the articles in the two links before deciding as I didn't go through them thoroughly
Reference:

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/archive/design-tokenism

https://www.iconeye.com/design/features/electrocraft-how-designers-are-rethinking-electronics

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