Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
morceaux de découpe de gros / de gros
English translation:
primal cuts
Added to glossary by
TopBearLondon
Dec 11, 2006 03:06
17 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
Works in: Spanish to English
morceaux de découpe de gros / de gros
French to English
Science
Livestock / Animal Husbandry
carcasses / cuts of meat
OK, I'm a little bit thrown by the use of "de gros" here, as it comes up a few times in my text. Does anyone have any ideas given the contexts below?
I've given three possible translation "scenarios" to see how I have tried to deal with this but which one would be most appropriate... if any??? I also have the feeling I could be barking up a tree which has no relation to the correct translation whatsoever... ;)
Many thanks in advance, TB
Les carcasses ou morceaux de découpe de gros sont identifiés en abattoir par un dispositif particulier et sont revêtus de l’estampille en vigueur dans l’établissement.
The carcasses or large cut pieces shall be identified at the slaughterhouse by a specific device and shall bear the stamp in force at the establishment.
Lorsque les lésions (cysticerque vivant ou en voie de dégénérescence, ou lésions calcifiées) mises en évidence, en quelque lieu que ce soit, sont en quantité moindre (inférieure à une lésion par décimètre carré), les organes ou parties de carcasse porteurs des lésions sont saisis à l’abattoir (s’il ne s’agissait que d’une découpe de gros) ou à l’atelier de découpe (si la carcasse y a été dirigée pour une découpe plus fine sous contrôle des services vétérinaires).
When the lesions (a living or degenerating cysticercus or calcified lesions) discovered, in any place whatsoever, are of a lesser quantity (less than one lesion per decimetre squared), the organs or parts of the carcass affected by the lesions shall be held at the slaughterhouse (if this was a large-scale cut) or at the cutting premises (if the carcass has been sent there for finer cutting under the control of the veterinary services).
La carcasse doit alors être soumise à un examen approfondi en abattoir au cours duquel il peut être procédé à des incisions complémentaires pouvant aller jusqu’à la découpe de gros.
The carcass must therefore be submitted to a detailed examination in the slaughterhouse during which additional incisions could be made or even deeper cutting.
I've given three possible translation "scenarios" to see how I have tried to deal with this but which one would be most appropriate... if any??? I also have the feeling I could be barking up a tree which has no relation to the correct translation whatsoever... ;)
Many thanks in advance, TB
Les carcasses ou morceaux de découpe de gros sont identifiés en abattoir par un dispositif particulier et sont revêtus de l’estampille en vigueur dans l’établissement.
The carcasses or large cut pieces shall be identified at the slaughterhouse by a specific device and shall bear the stamp in force at the establishment.
Lorsque les lésions (cysticerque vivant ou en voie de dégénérescence, ou lésions calcifiées) mises en évidence, en quelque lieu que ce soit, sont en quantité moindre (inférieure à une lésion par décimètre carré), les organes ou parties de carcasse porteurs des lésions sont saisis à l’abattoir (s’il ne s’agissait que d’une découpe de gros) ou à l’atelier de découpe (si la carcasse y a été dirigée pour une découpe plus fine sous contrôle des services vétérinaires).
When the lesions (a living or degenerating cysticercus or calcified lesions) discovered, in any place whatsoever, are of a lesser quantity (less than one lesion per decimetre squared), the organs or parts of the carcass affected by the lesions shall be held at the slaughterhouse (if this was a large-scale cut) or at the cutting premises (if the carcass has been sent there for finer cutting under the control of the veterinary services).
La carcasse doit alors être soumise à un examen approfondi en abattoir au cours duquel il peut être procédé à des incisions complémentaires pouvant aller jusqu’à la découpe de gros.
The carcass must therefore be submitted to a detailed examination in the slaughterhouse during which additional incisions could be made or even deeper cutting.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | "See below" |
blavatsky
|
| 3 | joint |
Bourth (X)
|
| 2 | main cuts/cross-section |
Jeffrey Lewis
|
Proposed translations
7 hrs
Selected
"See below"
From Rachel's link
découpe de gros - cuts from the principle cut
coupe de gros - principle cuts eg(thigh, side, shoulder etc)
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Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:18:38 GMT)
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Here are some classifications on typr of beef:-
How beef is graded
Grades are based on the amount of marbling in the meat and the age of the animal. Marbling is the flecks and streaks of white fat you find distributed throughout the meat. In general, the higher the degree of marbling, the more tender, juicy, and flavorable the meat will be. Consequently, higher grade meats come at a higher cost. Age also plays in an important part. Beef is best in flavor and texture when cattle is between 18 and 24 months old, so the grading favors younger animals. There are eight distinct grades of beef recognized by the USDA. In order of descending quality they are:
Prime
Choice
Select
Standard
Commercial
Utility
Cutter
Canner
http://www.bbqreport.com/archives/barbecue/2006/03/02/unders...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:20:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Beef Cuts
Did you know that beef is divided into sections called primal cuts? From these large areas, the meat cutter makes smaller portions suitable for individual or family-sized packaging.
http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/chef/cuts.php
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Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:23:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A revised answer :
découpe de gros - cuts from the primal cut
coupe de gros - primal cuts eg(thigh, side, shoulder etc)
découpe de gros - cuts from the principle cut
coupe de gros - principle cuts eg(thigh, side, shoulder etc)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:18:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here are some classifications on typr of beef:-
How beef is graded
Grades are based on the amount of marbling in the meat and the age of the animal. Marbling is the flecks and streaks of white fat you find distributed throughout the meat. In general, the higher the degree of marbling, the more tender, juicy, and flavorable the meat will be. Consequently, higher grade meats come at a higher cost. Age also plays in an important part. Beef is best in flavor and texture when cattle is between 18 and 24 months old, so the grading favors younger animals. There are eight distinct grades of beef recognized by the USDA. In order of descending quality they are:
Prime
Choice
Select
Standard
Commercial
Utility
Cutter
Canner
http://www.bbqreport.com/archives/barbecue/2006/03/02/unders...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:20:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Beef Cuts
Did you know that beef is divided into sections called primal cuts? From these large areas, the meat cutter makes smaller portions suitable for individual or family-sized packaging.
http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/chef/cuts.php
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2006-12-11 19:23:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A revised answer :
découpe de gros - cuts from the primal cut
coupe de gros - primal cuts eg(thigh, side, shoulder etc)
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks all for your help on this one. I found all of your answers useful and helpful and am trying to spread the points around a bit :)"
3 hrs
Jeffrey Lewis
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
academic and scientific translations
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
main cuts/cross-section
I'm sure somebody will come along and correct me if I'm wrong, so I'll lay out what I have found.
I think you might be well advised to go with at least two different translations in among your "scenarios".
First off, the normal meaning of the phrase relates to the standard cuts of meat that come from a side of beef, that is, hind quarter, flank, etc. I can't find any other term besides side for the whole thing and cuts for the parts. (Here's a nice bilingual rundown: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/mcmancv/beeb... )
You may have some context that will lead you to use "quarter" or something else, but for this part I'm just suggesting "main cuts", not large or large-scale.
However! I don't see any reason why the "finer cutting" in the second scenario, which takes place under veterinary observation, would follow the pattern of cutting a butcher follows. They would be making thinner cross-sections of a cut of meat that had already been picked out for too many lesions (and this is all making my hamburger sit rather badly on my stomach), so they could get a more accurate count, which would lead to more investigation, possibly of the source herd, etc. So my recommendation for #2 would be cross-section. The "finer" cutting takes place at an "atelier" where butchering is done, but I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the observing vets just want to use the saws or other power cutting equipment.
For the third, I see why you put "even deeper", because it follows on. It's interesting that all this has to be carried out at the place, apparently it would be illegal to take the suspected meat anywhere. But you already have "plus fine" in #2, and so I'm tempted to offer "dissection" as the "third stage" - but I really don't know what the lesions are, or if the reason for more cutting and then still more cutting is what I imagine it to be.
Clear as mud? Now if you'll excuse me I have to go see a man about a horse (urp).
I think you might be well advised to go with at least two different translations in among your "scenarios".
First off, the normal meaning of the phrase relates to the standard cuts of meat that come from a side of beef, that is, hind quarter, flank, etc. I can't find any other term besides side for the whole thing and cuts for the parts. (Here's a nice bilingual rundown: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/mcmancv/beeb... )
You may have some context that will lead you to use "quarter" or something else, but for this part I'm just suggesting "main cuts", not large or large-scale.
However! I don't see any reason why the "finer cutting" in the second scenario, which takes place under veterinary observation, would follow the pattern of cutting a butcher follows. They would be making thinner cross-sections of a cut of meat that had already been picked out for too many lesions (and this is all making my hamburger sit rather badly on my stomach), so they could get a more accurate count, which would lead to more investigation, possibly of the source herd, etc. So my recommendation for #2 would be cross-section. The "finer" cutting takes place at an "atelier" where butchering is done, but I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the observing vets just want to use the saws or other power cutting equipment.
For the third, I see why you put "even deeper", because it follows on. It's interesting that all this has to be carried out at the place, apparently it would be illegal to take the suspected meat anywhere. But you already have "plus fine" in #2, and so I'm tempted to offer "dissection" as the "third stage" - but I really don't know what the lesions are, or if the reason for more cutting and then still more cutting is what I imagine it to be.
Clear as mud? Now if you'll excuse me I have to go see a man about a horse (urp).
7 hrs
joint
That's the closest I can come for the stage between a quarter and a cut, based on the definitions in Rachel's site.
At the simplest level a "roast" is a LARGE CUT of meat that is cooked whole, as opposed to being broken down into individual steaks, or cubes for stew. ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061129132932AAPSDiy
It is a rather LARGE CUT accounting for approximately 24% of the carcass ...
www.askthemeatman.com/pork_ham_cuts.htm
[that makes it a 'quarter', then!]
LARGE CUTS of meat are often processed for sale to a butcher rather than to the ... 1 is a perspective view of a typical large cut of meat of the before ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/5039533.html
a jinte of meat or two…”
Jerry’s “jinte” of meat is a “JOINT” – “[o]ne of the portions into which a carcass is divided by the butcher, consisting of one or more bones (e.g. that of the leg or shoulder) with the meat thereon; esp[ecially] as cooked and served at table” (OED).
http://aglsp2003.stanford.edu/archive/tale/issue7_gloss2.htm...
Découpe Quantité de viande vendable obtenue à partir d'un morceau en gros [so, a "cut"?]
Coupe de gros tous les principaux morceaux de découpe en gros : cuisse, longe complète, longe (ou longe courte et filet), côtes et bloc d'épaule [a "joint"?]
[Smithfields]
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2006-12-11 14:40:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
PRIMAL CUT - PRIMAL CUT - PRIMAL CUT
You will notice that the carving of the larger or "commercial" cuts down into smaller specific or "retail" cuts will be only mentioned in passing, and not concentrated upon.
www.churchofeuthanasia.org/e-sermons/butcher.html
[This is a "joke" about butchering human meat, so if you're at all sensitive, steer clear]
PRIMAL CUTS are also called WHOLESALE CUTS, because they are usually sold to meat markets to be cut into smaller beef cuts for sale to the consumer. ...
www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=...
In determining whether or not you can save money by buying carcasses or WHOLESALE CUTS of meat over what it would cost to buy retail cuts, you will have to ...
www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/meat.htm
In meatpacking plants, meatcutters slaughter cattle, hogs, goats, and sheep and cut the carcasses into large wholesale cuts, such as rounds, loins, ribs, and chucks to facilitate the handling, distribution, and marketing of meat. In some of these plants, meatcutters also further process these PRIMAL PARTS into cuts that are ready for RETAIL USE.
https://guide.symplicity.com/resources/profession_article.ph...
I toyed intially with "commercial cuts", but this (and if memory serves this came up on ProZ in the past) refers to low-quality meat used for sausages, hamburgers, etc.
At the simplest level a "roast" is a LARGE CUT of meat that is cooked whole, as opposed to being broken down into individual steaks, or cubes for stew. ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061129132932AAPSDiy
It is a rather LARGE CUT accounting for approximately 24% of the carcass ...
www.askthemeatman.com/pork_ham_cuts.htm
[that makes it a 'quarter', then!]
LARGE CUTS of meat are often processed for sale to a butcher rather than to the ... 1 is a perspective view of a typical large cut of meat of the before ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/5039533.html
a jinte of meat or two…”
Jerry’s “jinte” of meat is a “JOINT” – “[o]ne of the portions into which a carcass is divided by the butcher, consisting of one or more bones (e.g. that of the leg or shoulder) with the meat thereon; esp[ecially] as cooked and served at table” (OED).
http://aglsp2003.stanford.edu/archive/tale/issue7_gloss2.htm...
Découpe Quantité de viande vendable obtenue à partir d'un morceau en gros [so, a "cut"?]
Coupe de gros tous les principaux morceaux de découpe en gros : cuisse, longe complète, longe (ou longe courte et filet), côtes et bloc d'épaule [a "joint"?]
[Smithfields]
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2006-12-11 14:40:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
PRIMAL CUT - PRIMAL CUT - PRIMAL CUT
You will notice that the carving of the larger or "commercial" cuts down into smaller specific or "retail" cuts will be only mentioned in passing, and not concentrated upon.
www.churchofeuthanasia.org/e-sermons/butcher.html
[This is a "joke" about butchering human meat, so if you're at all sensitive, steer clear]
PRIMAL CUTS are also called WHOLESALE CUTS, because they are usually sold to meat markets to be cut into smaller beef cuts for sale to the consumer. ...
www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=...
In determining whether or not you can save money by buying carcasses or WHOLESALE CUTS of meat over what it would cost to buy retail cuts, you will have to ...
www.ams.usda.gov/howtobuy/meat.htm
In meatpacking plants, meatcutters slaughter cattle, hogs, goats, and sheep and cut the carcasses into large wholesale cuts, such as rounds, loins, ribs, and chucks to facilitate the handling, distribution, and marketing of meat. In some of these plants, meatcutters also further process these PRIMAL PARTS into cuts that are ready for RETAIL USE.
https://guide.symplicity.com/resources/profession_article.ph...
I toyed intially with "commercial cuts", but this (and if memory serves this came up on ProZ in the past) refers to low-quality meat used for sausages, hamburgers, etc.
Discussion