Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

unentgeltlich oder ehrenamtlich

English translation:

without pay or voluntary

Added to glossary by Ramey Rieger (X)
Apr 25, 2019 15:29
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

unentgeltlich oder ehrenamtlich

German to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Employment Contract
Is there a difference? This is from the clause in an employment contract prohibiting the employee (member of an executive board in this case) from taking on secondary employment:

"Die Übernahme anderer geschäftlicher oder gewerblicher Tätigkeiten – gleichgültig ob entgeltlich, unentgeltlich oder ehrenamtlich – bedarf der vorherigen schriftlichen Zustimmung des Vorsitzenden des Aufsichtsrates der Gesellschaft."

I know it's "remunerated, unremunerated, or as a volunteer", but is there another difference I'm not picking up on?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 without pay or voluntary
Change log

Apr 30, 2019 13:00: Ramey Rieger (X) Created KOG entry

Discussion

Steffen Walter Apr 26, 2019:
I think ... ... that the two UK examples cited by Björn are perfectly adequate in this context. I also agree with Björn's remark re. "ehrenamtlich" being a subset of "unentgeltlich".
Björn Vrooman Apr 25, 2019:
Here "However, if you are from outside the European Economic Area (EEA), you are not allowed to take up work, paid or unpaid, which includes volunteering, without a valid work permit or ‘Indefinite Leave to Remain (LDR)’ and 3 years residence history within the UK."
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/tna/2014100814504...

"'Other' or outside work is defined as any paid or unpaid work, including voluntary work, undertaken in addition to an employee’s substantive role with the Council."
https://democracy.southend.gov.uk/documents/s2011/15.12.15 -...

Those two make sense, by the way. Ehrenamtlich is unentgeltlich. It is a subset, if you will, of unentgeltich.

Best
Björn Vrooman Apr 25, 2019:
Tätigkeit... ...Andrew, is just work, position, capacity or role. Here's an example:
https://www.service-bw.de/lebenslage/-/sbw/Freiberufliche od...

Duden's list of synonyms, item 2: Arbeit, Beruf, berufliche Tätigkeit, Beschäftigung, Betätigung, Job, Metier, Posten, Stelle, Stellung
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Taetigkeit

I don't quite understand your point about "ongoing"; a gewerbliche Tätigkeit is, by definition, "ongoing":
"In der deutschen Rechtswissenschaft hat sich folgende Definition durchgesetzt: Ein Gewerbe ist jede erlaubte, selbständige, nach außen erkennbare Tätigkeit, die planmäßig, für eine gewisse Dauer und zum Zwecke der Gewinnerzielung ausgeübt wird und kein freier Beruf ist...Planmäßig und auf gewisse Dauer betriebene gewerbliche Tätigkeit bedeutet, dass diese nicht nur gelegentlich betrieben werden darf. Nach Karsten Schmidt muss die Tätigkeit auf immer und ewig geplant sein."
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewerbe

Cf. http://buergerservice.esslingen.de/GewerbeMeldung/help/allge...

They aren't talking about you selling stuff on eBay for once.

Best
Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) Apr 25, 2019:
It is UK English. Sorry I forgot to specify.
Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) Apr 25, 2019:
Point taken (although they are actually synonymous in the US).
Ramey Rieger (X) Apr 25, 2019:
@Peter We're talking U.S. English, I believe. But I'm with you all the way on the 'compensation' bit. 'With our without pay/remuneration or voluntary'
Honorary, to my ears just does not belong here.
Peter Barker Apr 25, 2019:
@Andrew, please don't use compensation. In my opinion that relates to something that is given or paid in recognition of some kind of loss or injury. Payment for work is remuneration.
Peter Barker Apr 25, 2019:
@Ramey

Definition of honorary according to OED: (of an office or its holder) unpaid.

Definition of ehrenamtlich according to Duden: freiwilllig, für einen Gotteslohn, ohne Bezahlung/Entgelt, um Gotteslohn, umsonst, unentgeltlich
Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) Apr 25, 2019:
I might go with "– whether such activities are performed for compensation, for no compensation, or on a volunteer or honorary basis –". I'm a little hesitant to equate an "activity" with a "position", which is ongoing. And that would settle the "honorary" vs. "volunteer" issue (although we are talking about a member of an executive board, so an honorary position might be likely).
Ramey Rieger (X) Apr 25, 2019:
@Peter I beg to differ. An honorary position is per se recompensed by being an honor (doctor, artist) - not necessarily a volunteer. They are two very different things.
Peter Barker Apr 25, 2019:
I think you are focussing too much on the distinction between these other types of employment. The point, I would guess, of this clause is that the employee may not take up other employment of ANY KIND whatsoever without the employer's consent. And I would guess that is chiefly to do with such things as conflicts of interest or not being able to devote oneself sufficiently to the job in question rather than whether or not one is paid for the second job. And by the way, in this context "honorary position" is preferable to "volunteer" in my opinion.
Nick Brisland, BA (Hons) Apr 25, 2019:
Could it be the difference between unpaid employment and volunteer work? I.e. with unpaid employment you still get benefits such as holiday and sick pay, but you don't get such benefits with volunteer work. I'm not certain, but that would be my guess.

Proposed translations

+3
5 mins
Selected

without pay or voluntary

The difference is that positions without pay may be recompensed somehow (goods, privileges, etc.), weil voluntary there is no recompense at all.
Peer comment(s):

agree Adrian MM. : eng.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/human-resources/181296-ehrenamtlich.html oddly enough, in English conveyancing of land, the meanings of unpaid and voluntary coincide in a 'voluntary (free) conveyance', namely a volunteer is one who pays nowt.
5 hrs
Mercy buckets!
agree David Hollywood : without pay or on an honorary basis... or "unpaid"
7 hrs
Also good!
agree Steffen Walter : "... paid or unpaid work, including voluntary work, ..." (along the lines of the examples Björn cited in the discussion area). Enjoy your weekend :-)
22 hrs
You, too, Steffen.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!"
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