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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

respiratory therapist

French translation:

kinésithérapeute respiratoire

Added to glossary by Séverine torralba
Feb 26, 2019 16:26
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

respiratory therapist

English to French Medical Medical: Health Care manuel ventilateur
Bonjour,

J'ai quelques difficultés à traduire le terme "respiratory therapist", est ce qu'on peut parler de spécialiste du système respiratoire ou pneumologue ?. Je sais qu'au Canada ils utilisent "inhalothérapeute" mais ça ne convient pas en France.

"as prescribed by a qualified clinician, such as a physician or respiratory therapist."

Merci
Proposed translations (French)
4 +1 kinésithérapeute respiratoire
4 +2 pneumologue

Discussion

Drmanu49 Mar 5, 2019:
Sad to see where the diuscussion has lead.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
Ok then, leave it as prescribed... ...and also include whatever French term everyone agrees means respiratory therapist, even though in France RTs cannot "prescribe" medical equipment or the use thereof. I doubt this client is going to commission separate translations for every French-speaking country on earth, so you should not be imposing the legal norms of l'Hexagone on the translation.

As for "prescribed," even in the US an RT can't prescribe a ventilator -- they can only decide on what settings to use for a patient who's already on a ventilator, given the patient's current status. That's not literally "prescribing" in the sense you're talking about, Drmanu. It's "prescribing" in the sense of recommending or determining. That's why I'm saying if "prescrire" is something only doctors can do, then we shouldn't use that word.
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
What is absurd is your trying to warp a term outside of its intended meaning. "Prescribed by a clinician" in a context of respiratory assistance can only be translated one way.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
@Drmanu I just gave an example of "prescribe," in a medical context, having more than one meaning: (1) write a prescription to obtain medicine/equipment, or (2) give a patient verbal guidance on how to treat themselves, without medicine. How absurd for you to insist, right afterward, that it has only one meaning.

This is, again, an instruction manual. It says to only use the machine as instructed by a doctor or RT. As written, the manual works in all types of jurisdictions: those where only a doctor can tell you how to use a ventilator, AND those where either a doctor or RT can do so. And, of course, those where the law says X now but next year might change to say X and Y.

Unless the translator was hired not just to translate but also to localize the instruction manual to conform to a specific jurisdiction's laws, which I'm guessing she wasn't, she should leave it as written.
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
This is medical English, and prescribe has only one meaning. No playing around that word, you need to stick strictly to the field. I am a native speaker and I have close to 40 years of teaching medical English. I highly doubt that I could be mistaken for that basic term. End of a sterile discussion.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
Prescribe doesn't only mean prescrire... ...in English. Look in a dictionary: the PRIMARY meaning in English is to state a rule, dictate, instruct, provide guidance, etc. Even the medical meaning can simply mean that ("My doctor just prescribed lots of rest and hydration -- she said I didn't need any medicine at all").

Native speaker here. Do you want to understand the source word? Or just fixate on one possible translation of it?

intransitive verb
1 : to lay down a rule : dictate
2 : [ Middle English, from Medieval Latin praescribere, from Latin, to write at the beginning ] : to claim a title to something by right of prescription
3 : to write or give medical prescriptions

transitive verb
1a : to lay down as a guide, direction, or rule of action : ordain
b : to specify with authority
2 : to designate or order the use of as a remedy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prescribe

verb (used without object), pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing.
to lay down rules; direct; dictate.
Medicine/Medical . to designate remedies, treatment, etc., to be used.
Law . to claim a right or title by virtue of long use and enjoyment; make a prescriptive claim. (usually followed by for or to).
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prescribe
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
No its does NOT say that, it says "prescribed" loud and clear. You may want to ignore it but you can't change the meaning of words.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
It's an instruction manual, not the Code Civil It just means "only use this machine as instructed by your doctor or respiratory therapist." It does NOT mean "respiratory therapists have the right to write prescriptions in your country." It does NOT mean "We, the makers of this ventilator, think you should ignore the laws in your country and ask your RT to write you a prescription."

It JUST means, "Don't wing it, don't try to figure this out yourself, don't do anything that you weren't told to do by either your doctor or your RT."

It's not up to the machine or software manufacturer to tailor the instruction manual for a machine to match the laws of every jurisdiction where the machine might be sold. Do you think they update instruction manuals for machines when the law changes in one jurisdiction where the language is spoken? This manual's purpose is to explain "how to safely use this machine," not "how to comply with the law in your exact jurisdiction."
Lionel-N Feb 27, 2019:
@Eliza Je trouve assez paradoxale votre suggestion: changer la traduction de "prescrire" en "recommander" pour pouvoir insérer les kyné ????
Il s'agit de traduction médicale, destinée aux professionnels de santé et vous voulez changer le verbe prescrire pour pouvoir citer les kyné ???? C'est complètement surréel d'un point de vue déontologique. Considérant que votre spécialité est le droit, je me demande si vous changer les verbes dans un article du code civil, genre "sera condamné"....non.....mettons....."sera invité" :) je plaisante bien évidemment !
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
This is France and not the USA. And it is definitely the pneumologist who decides here. The physiotherapist follows the physician's decisions. There is no such position as respiratory therapist in France and a physiotherapist cannot take any decision without referring to the physician.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
@Lionel and @Drmanu It's not necessarily the doctor who decides how to ventilate. Certainly if a patient on a ventilator starts having difficulties, the RT makes immediate decisions independently. I've seen it happen several times -- as I mentioned, my mother is in the hospital on a ventilator now, and it's not the first time.

On a hospital intensive care unit or in a nursing home where patients are on ventilators, the doctor usually isn't even present (she might be on another floor of the hospital, helping a patient, or -- if it's a nursing home, i.e. there's no 24-hour doctor -- simply at home).

The RT is who makes decisions concerning ventilator settings if the doctor isn't there. And the RT is who makes adjustments to those settings, for example, to begin a session of attempting to wean a patient off of a ventilator.

I agree that "prescrire c'est prescrire" and I accept as true your statement that in France only a doctor can prescribe. That's why the word needs to be translated as recommends or determines instead of prescribes.
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
Séverine, les "prescriptions" des kinés sont strictement limitées à quelques items comme cité dans le vidal et ils n'ont aucune liberté de prescrire en dehors de cette courte liste. Les sages-femmes ont ce même genre d'autorisation limitée comme les infirmiers, et surtout sans indication contraire du médecin.
Séverine torralba (asker) Feb 27, 2019:
@Drmanu49, je faisais simplement allusion à l'association exclusive du terme "prescrire" avec le titre de médecin qui ne l'est pas visiblement. Le lien que j'ai inclue n'était pas spécifique à un ventilateur respiratoire mais simplement au statut de kiné (masseur dans ce cas-là) qui autorise la prescription.
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
@ Séverine- Absolument pas en ce qui concerne un respirateur. Lisez votre reférence du vidal et ses restrictions.
Séverine torralba (asker) Feb 27, 2019:
Une personne qui n'a pas le statut de médecin peut également prescrire, y compris les infirmiers et les kinés.https://www.vidal.fr/infos-pratiques/id10462.htm
Lionel-N Feb 27, 2019:
Faire des réglages ? Tout dépend: c'est le médecin qui décide comment ventiler.
Cela dit, "prescrire" c'est "prescrire" et seul un médecin peut le faire. Même pour l'usage d'un ventilateur.
Séverine torralba (asker) Feb 27, 2019:
Je suis d'accord avec Lionel et Eliza, je pense que les termes "prescrit" et le "thérapeute" sont à localiser ici car une personne habilitée à faire des réglages sur un appareil respiratoire ne doit pas nécessairement être médecin.
Lionel-N Feb 27, 2019:
@Asker Il est clair que la trad doit être localisée; en France seul un Médecin est en mesure de prescrire un médicament ou l'usage d'un dispositif médical comme un ventilateur.....
Drmanu49 Feb 27, 2019:
"as prescribed by a qualified clinician, such as a physician or respiratory therapist" ne laisse aucun doute sur la prescription et en France, cela est du ressort unique d'un spécialiste, donc un pneumologue. It DOES literally mean prescribed in the sense of writing an order.
Séverine torralba (asker) Feb 27, 2019:
Eliza, yes, I realized that I should have included that part of the paragraph in my original message. I had indeed read "prescribed" as "recommended" but I really struggle to render the meaning of "respiratory therapist" in French as "kinésithérapeute respiratoire" sounds odd to me but it might be accurate.
Eliza Hall Feb 27, 2019:
That does help It helps because USED as prescribed doesn't literally mean prescribed in the sense of writing an order to enable a patient to obtain medication (or in this case a piece of medical equipment). An RT is entirely qualified to determine how a vent should be used. There are only two ways to use a vent -- with a vent tube down the throat, or with a tracheostomy tube -- so what this instruction means is essentially, "This should only be used with either a vent tube or a trach, as determined by a doctor or RT, and only on the settings chosen by a doctor or RT."

In your translation, you may want to avoid using a word that means "prescribed" in the sense of a written prescription for medication or medical equipment. In this text it means recommended, determined or instructed. An RT can't write prescriptions but they can determine what settings a given patient's ventilator should be on, based on that patient's needs, objective measures (e.g. the patient's oxygen saturation), and clinical presentation.

And my mother is literally on a vent in the hospital right now, with multiple daily visits from RTs, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Séverine torralba (asker) Feb 26, 2019:
To give you more context, we're talking about a respiratory ventilator. The paragraph is:
The ventilator must only be used:
as prescribed by a qualified clinician, such as a physician or respiratory therapist.
for the intended treatment in accordance with this manual and with the instructions given by the responsible clinical personnel.

I'm not sure this helps.
Eliza Hall Feb 26, 2019:
What is being "prescribed"? Severine, an RT in the US can't actually prescribe anything but they work with doctors and may recommend certain medicines or treatments, which the doctor then prescribes. Could that be what this text means?
Drmanu49 Feb 26, 2019:
"prescribed by a qualified clinician" sous entend en France un médecin qui seul peut prescrire.

Proposed translations

+1
14 mins
Selected

kinésithérapeute respiratoire

"Rôle du kinésithérapeute respiratoire dans un ... - DIAL@UCLouvain
https://dial.uclouvain.be/pr/boreal/object/boreal:163982
Rôle du kinésithérapeute respiratoire dans un service d'accueil des urgences pour adultes. In: Reanimation, Vol. 20, no. 6, p. 508-515 (2011). Permanent URL ..."

Pulmonologist versus respiratory therapist :

"Level of Education

It takes much less time to become a respiratory therapist than to become a pulmonologist. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, most respiratory therapists have either an associate or bachelor's degree, which takes between two and four years. By comparison, it typically takes at least 10 years to become a pulmonologist -- at least seven years of pre-medical training and medical training to become a practitioner of internal medicine, and then two to three years of specialized training in respiratory care."
https://work.chron.com/respiratory-care-practitioner-vs-resp...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2019-02-27 11:08:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Personne ne conteste le fait que seul un médecin peut rédiger une prescription. Mais, étant donné qu'il s'agit ici du mode d'emploi d'un nébuliseur/appareil à aérosols, on peut douter du fait que "prescribe" soit utilisé au sens médical strict.

Les nébuliseurs sont en vente libre, et beaucoup de parents de jeunes enfants utilisent du sérum physiologique, qui ne nécessite pas de prescription. Un kiné respiratoire peut très bien recommander son utilisation.

"prescribe : med
to recommend or order the use of (a drug or other remedy) "
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prescribe?s=t
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lionel-N : La trad est parfaite, mais ces figures professionnelles ne sont pas autorisées à prescrire en France et donc la traduction, localisée pour la France, ne peut en faire état/Prescrire c'est prescrire et non recommander
9 mins
comme l'indique Eliza, on peut douter du fait que "prescribed" ait ici le sens strict de "drug prescription", réservée aux seuls médecins. Il me semble qu'un kiné peut recommander (prescribe) l'utilisation d'un nébuliseur.
disagree Drmanu49 : Non pour la France François-Xavier un kiné ne peut pas prescrire.// There is no such thing as an informal prescription!!!
24 mins
agree Eliza Hall : Yes, this is probably the closest equivalent. Drmanu49: an RT can't prescribe either. They administer drugs and treatments prescribed by doctors. They can informally prescribe, i.e. recommend and then the doctor writes the order.
1 hr
agree El Mehdi Hakkou
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci :)"
+2
4 mins

pneumologue

Dans ce cas

La réhabilitation respiratoire en 6 questions - Association BPCO
https://bpco-asso.com/la-rehabilitation-respiratoire-en-6-qu...

7 mars 2017 - La réhabilitation respiratoire est une prise en charge globale du patient ... grands piliers que sont l'activité physique et l'éducation thérapeutique. ... est conduite par une équipe pluridisciplinaire (médecin pneumologue, kiné, ...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Eliza Hall : An RT is not a doctor (thus not a médecin pneumologue). https://www.healthline.com/health/what-is-a-respiratory-ther...
1 hr
Exactly my point, in France you cannot prescribe without being a doctor. Otherwise I would have mentioned kinésitherapeute but in France he is only part of the team headed by a pneumologist.
agree Lionel-N : Au vu du complément d'info, effectivement, en France, seul un médecin peut prescrire.
18 hrs
Thank you Lio.
agree Bertrand Leduc
1 day 13 hrs
Thank you Bertrand.
agree Christine HOUDY : Un pneulogue peut prescrire des traitements
6 days
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
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