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This trend of agencies deciding which tools the freelancer should use...
Thread poster: Alison High
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:59
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Not my experience Apr 30, 2018

Samuel Murray wrote:

Alison High wrote:
I'm increasingly getting jobs for which agencies specify I need to an online version of their preferred CAT tool i.e. use their tool or don't get the job.


You're looking at this the wrong way. The poor client has his source text stuck inside this online tool and he needs to have it translated. He can't get the text out, but he's hoping you can put the translation in without the need to take out the source text first. Or, if you are skilled enough to take out the source text yourself and put in the translation, that would also make his day.

The decision to use the online tool is often out of the client's hands. Have some sympathy with the poor client.


The client is "poor" only after having put most of his/her chips on that online CAT tool, either bought or hired programmers to build it. If they made a bad choice, why should they drag all translators into that pitfall?

The most frequent requirement I see (especially on Proz) is "MUST have Trados", even when NO CAT tool will be of any use.

I can't recall exactly where I saw a translation job post where they emphasized "Must have Traldus" (sic!) so much, that they neglected to state any of the source and target languages, possibly an irrelevant piece of information for those mighty translators who have 'Traldus'.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:59
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Exceptions to the rule Apr 30, 2018

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
Chris S wrote:
I can't imagine any customer paying me to learn a new tool.

Precisely. If my customer wants to pay me my usual hourly rate to learn a new tool, I'm all for it! But they never do, strangely enough...

A prospective client contacted me for ongoing, interesting but technically demanding work, consisting of small projects that could be slotted in between larger jobs. The catch was that the end client mandated the use of a tool I hadn't used before.

I thought about it and gave it a try. A couple of years later that client is a very large, stable and nicely diversified revenue stream for me. Normally I would have just walked away, but I'm glad I didn't on that occasion.

The other issue is how arduous one finds the process of learning and becoming efficient in a new tool. I found MemoQ instantly familiar and had very few problems - I was up and running in 30 minutes. Memsource was a similar experience.

But I also want to echo the comment earlier in the thread about asking whether the use of the tool mentioned really is mandatory. Sometimes the client will not, after all, insist.

Dan


Christine Andersen
 
Mayara Herrero
Mayara Herrero  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 05:59
Portuguese to English
+ ...
I don't mind May 1, 2018

I'm not that proficient in using regular CAT tools already so I really don't mind if the agency decides I should use an online one, I have found these to be easier to work with than regular CAT tools for which you have to take courses to be able to use well. I really liked Smartcat actually, which is one of the tools I've seen clients demanding you use. It's simple to use and I could easily use all the regular functions available in CAT tools like MemoQ and others without all the hassle. As for ... See more
I'm not that proficient in using regular CAT tools already so I really don't mind if the agency decides I should use an online one, I have found these to be easier to work with than regular CAT tools for which you have to take courses to be able to use well. I really liked Smartcat actually, which is one of the tools I've seen clients demanding you use. It's simple to use and I could easily use all the regular functions available in CAT tools like MemoQ and others without all the hassle. As for Matecat, I would completely understand if you always work with CAT tools why you wouldn't want to use matecat, as it uses it's own translation memory alongside with yours it can be a problem.Collapse


 
Lian Pang
Lian Pang  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:59
Member (2018)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I use only one CAT tool May 2, 2018

aka MemoQ. I think it's perfect. Some agencies have corporate license and jobs are done on their memoQ servers. I have no problem with that .

But if someone asks me to buy/install a new CAT tool on my computer, or just some software, I would definitely decline.


 
Renate Radziwill-Rall
Renate Radziwill-Rall  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:59
Member
French to German
+ ...
I refuse May 2, 2018

Who pays for my time learning all these different online Tools?

I work with Trados, the most common tool, that is enough.

These online Tools are a means for agencies to control us. Which I refuse.


 
Kasper van Laar
Kasper van Laar
France
Local time: 09:59
French to Dutch
+ ...
...and that's not all May 2, 2018

Not only agencies ask more and more to work with their (online) tools (indeed: do you ask your butcher what knife he should use to cut your meat?), but moreover, they are now asking me to invoice on their ONLINE SYSTEM (they don't pay if I just send MY invoice...). Do you tell your butcher that if he doesn't edit his invoice the way you want it, you don't pay ??? It really is getting ridiculous. I use Trados, but I'm getting fed up with all those personlized tools you must invest time in to lear... See more
Not only agencies ask more and more to work with their (online) tools (indeed: do you ask your butcher what knife he should use to cut your meat?), but moreover, they are now asking me to invoice on their ONLINE SYSTEM (they don't pay if I just send MY invoice...). Do you tell your butcher that if he doesn't edit his invoice the way you want it, you don't pay ??? It really is getting ridiculous. I use Trados, but I'm getting fed up with all those personlized tools you must invest time in to learn how to use them.Collapse


Clara Marino
 
Tobi
Tobi
Local time: 09:59
English to German
+ ...
I see this trend as well May 2, 2018

I can confirm that more and more translation agencies are trying to install their own online tools. I'm not happy with this. I prefer to work with the market leader's tool - offline. I don't have a good experience with online tools. They are usually pretty cumbersome and don't allow a translation speed and quality than the tool of my choice. That's why I would adjust my rates when working with poor tools on a word count basis.
In brief, if an agency want's me to work on a slate, I'll do th
... See more
I can confirm that more and more translation agencies are trying to install their own online tools. I'm not happy with this. I prefer to work with the market leader's tool - offline. I don't have a good experience with online tools. They are usually pretty cumbersome and don't allow a translation speed and quality than the tool of my choice. That's why I would adjust my rates when working with poor tools on a word count basis.
In brief, if an agency want's me to work on a slate, I'll do this as well, but not for the same rate.

We should not put up with every idea agencies have to lower their cost/effort and increase their revenue.
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Dieezah
Dieezah
Martinique
French to English
+ ...
No CAT tools of any kind... but... May 2, 2018

I'm an anti CAT tools person. I believe nothing can beat a properly trained mind and a translator always willing to be constantly studying the languages he or she is working with... After all, languages are ever evolving. That being said, I'm a quick learner, if I really thought there was a real valid reason why I should learn to use some online platform or too in order to work with a new customer, I might consider it. It's a slightly different type of work but I recently accepted to learn to us... See more
I'm an anti CAT tools person. I believe nothing can beat a properly trained mind and a translator always willing to be constantly studying the languages he or she is working with... After all, languages are ever evolving. That being said, I'm a quick learner, if I really thought there was a real valid reason why I should learn to use some online platform or too in order to work with a new customer, I might consider it. It's a slightly different type of work but I recently accepted to learn to use the in-house platform of a new customer and a subtitling tool as well. (Transcription work and subtitle proofreading and timing...) As long as it doesn't take to much of my time (the learning process) I'm not against the principle. However, I must admit that I was annoyed when I found out (after the initial vetting phase they put me through) that I had to download multiple apps to my computer and mobile phone in order to start working. It was not announced when they contacted me. I like to be the one to decide what I install and when. But I was really interested in that particular field of work so I decided to give it a try. I think that I'm not likely to do that again unless it's really the kind of work I've been looking forward to for a long time (music related or film related ).Collapse


 
Marcela Trezza
Marcela Trezza
Canada
Local time: 04:59
Spanish to English
+ ...
I spent years studying and perfecting to be a good "translator" not an "IT expert". May 2, 2018

mariealpilles wrote:

I refuse to work with CAT Tools whether those chosen by the agencies or any others. It is up to the translator to use the tools he/she prefers - online dictionaries or resource material, etc. When you go to the butcher do you dictate which knife he should use to cut your piece of meat? Why should it be different for us? CAT Tools are only for them to pay less for twice as much work.



Agreed! Being proficient in CAT tools does not necessarily make you a better translator. I did not grow up with computers and I find these tools time consuming and difficult to figure out and we still have to review manually in order to make sure we stay faithful to the tone and content of the source text. Will they pay me for all the extra time? I don't think so. If I can deliver a good translation, it shouldn't matter to the client what method or tool I used.


Christine Andersen
 
Dušan Ján Hlísta
Dušan Ján Hlísta  Identity Verified
Slovakia
Local time: 09:59
English to Slovak
+ ...
Only WFC May 2, 2018

Ritu Bhanot wrote:

Dear Alison,

Thank you for starting this interesting topic.

I have the policy of either refusing the job or not replying.

Have a nice day.

Ritu


If they do not accept that I use Wordfast Classic version 6.99 (using Wordfast since 2000) then I refuse to work with them. I am too old (72 years) to be spied by the Big Brother. Poor poor George Orwell ("1984"). Dušan Ján Hlísta


 
Kersti Skovgaard
Kersti Skovgaard  Identity Verified
Estonia
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Estonian
+ ...
So true May 2, 2018

[quote]Enrico C - ECLC wrote:

The one when project managers in bigger companies increasingly rely on "smart tools" to do QA checks and enforce standards. This is resulting in subpar quality. I have customers pushing "Mandatory terminology" that is inherently wrong and they still insist in pushing it because "customer wants it" and "QA checks report an error that must be corrected" (regardless of the fact what the QA and the Customer want is really wrong, without relativism allowed: Example. cubic inches "cu.in" translated into Italian as "cu.pollici"). This is getting crazy.

So true. Such QA checks do not take into account the different structure of different languages. In agglutinating languages you get a number of different versions of the "mandatory terms", that's because of the declinations. Specifically Asian clients insist on using one form only and it takes (unpaid) time to explain the reasons why this cannot be done. Secondly, quite often the clients' termbases have wrong or obsolete terms. My experience has been that such agencies seem to think that they can save money by not using a reviewer but a "smart" QA tool instead.
My reaction: as answering the queries that come because of a "smart" QA check takes my time, it must be paid for. I give 2 options: either pay by the hour or agree to a higher per word rate for next jobs.


 
Krys Williams
Krys Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:59
Member (2003)
Polish to English
+ ...
I refuse to provde my services to such clients May 2, 2018

I do not allow clients to dictate to me when I should work and what tools I should use to do the work.
I use a CAT tool of my own choice, MemoQ on my desktop PC, though I do agree to download projects from a client's MemoQ server.
If an agency client does not wish to accept my choice, it's their loss not mine, there are plenty more agencies out there happy to accept my work practices.

Actually, the criteria used to distinguish self-employment from employment for UK ta
... See more
I do not allow clients to dictate to me when I should work and what tools I should use to do the work.
I use a CAT tool of my own choice, MemoQ on my desktop PC, though I do agree to download projects from a client's MemoQ server.
If an agency client does not wish to accept my choice, it's their loss not mine, there are plenty more agencies out there happy to accept my work practices.

Actually, the criteria used to distinguish self-employment from employment for UK tax purposes includes providing "main items of equipment to do your work".
So by agreeing to use some cloud-based CAT tool, not only am I forced to use inferior software; in some cases denied the ability to use/add to my own TM; and exposing myself to being spied on by the client with respect to my work times, speed of translation, etc., I am also risking losing an advantageous tax status.
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Kasper van Laar
Kasper van Laar
France
Local time: 09:59
French to Dutch
+ ...
Indeed May 2, 2018

"This is getting crazy."

So true. Worse : the client sends a Trados file in which all the old translations are locked (so they don't have to pay for reviewing them). But this way, you can't even correct the totally wrong translations... And even if it isn't my responsability, I don't want to send a poor translation...


 
Madeline Rios
Madeline Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:59
Spanish to English
+ ...
CAT tools actually slow me down May 2, 2018

CAT tools actually slow me down. Certain agencies won't hire anyone unless they use one or more of the CAT tools on the market, but I have plenty of work as it is. I've developed some of my own approaches to improve output, and a few of the companies I work for have told me that my production is actually higher in quantity and quality than their CAT-tool using contractors. Sometimes I'm asked to translate on a VPN, in which case I can't use any of my home-grown trade secrets. In that case I char... See more
CAT tools actually slow me down. Certain agencies won't hire anyone unless they use one or more of the CAT tools on the market, but I have plenty of work as it is. I've developed some of my own approaches to improve output, and a few of the companies I work for have told me that my production is actually higher in quantity and quality than their CAT-tool using contractors. Sometimes I'm asked to translate on a VPN, in which case I can't use any of my home-grown trade secrets. In that case I charge extra.Collapse


 
Kersti Skovgaard
Kersti Skovgaard  Identity Verified
Estonia
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Estonian
+ ...
Generally I avoid clients' CAT Tools May 2, 2018

Reasons why I avoid client provided online CAT Tools:
(1) the ones I've tried out till now are all slower, less convenient and less efficient than Trados Studio 2017 (even though Studio is not perfect, either);
(2) so far no client has offered to pay for the time spent on learning their tool. Instead, they enthusiastically say that they are giving me a new exciting tool for free (a free tool might be tempting for those who can't afford to buy one);
(3) it would probably be conf
... See more
Reasons why I avoid client provided online CAT Tools:
(1) the ones I've tried out till now are all slower, less convenient and less efficient than Trados Studio 2017 (even though Studio is not perfect, either);
(2) so far no client has offered to pay for the time spent on learning their tool. Instead, they enthusiastically say that they are giving me a new exciting tool for free (a free tool might be tempting for those who can't afford to buy one);
(3) it would probably be confusing to remember the features of all the different tools and I see no good reason why I should spend time on it;
(4) I've used lots of time and money to create translation memories and termbases and want to take full advantage. On many client provided platforms it is not possible either to use my own TMs/TBs or integrate the translation made on client's platform into my own TM; or both.

Sometimes, however, I do agree to work on client's platform, provided they agree to pay me a higher rate (memoQ has been an exception, even though I'm no great fan of it).

Slightly off-topic, but there are a couple of "biggies" that use automated tendering platforms and mass emails, plus online translation tools. Since that was introduced, I stopped working for such ones because of the constant flow of confusing emails. In my language pairs, I know a couple of other good colleagues who did the same. The result? When experienced translators decline automated offers and platforms, rookies take over and that has repercussions on quality.
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