How much to charge for first translation?
Thread poster: Lewis Blythe
Lewis Blythe
Lewis Blythe  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
Dec 5, 2019

Hello,

I'm a master's student of Translation Studies from the UK, and I have recently been requested to carry out a paid translation from Spanish into English. It is a 10,792 word transcription of an interview for a PhD student, who needs it for her thesis. According to the average price of translation/word (£0.10), I am able to charge £1079 at full price. However, as I am a student, and as it is my first paid translation, I am willing to do it for a lot less than full price.
... See more
Hello,

I'm a master's student of Translation Studies from the UK, and I have recently been requested to carry out a paid translation from Spanish into English. It is a 10,792 word transcription of an interview for a PhD student, who needs it for her thesis. According to the average price of translation/word (£0.10), I am able to charge £1079 at full price. However, as I am a student, and as it is my first paid translation, I am willing to do it for a lot less than full price.

However, I am unable to calculate discounts with fuzzy matches as the document has been transcribed automatically with a programme, meaning there is no punctuation to allow Trados to effectively split the document into segments.

I have been advised by one of my teachers to not go for a very cheap option, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how much discount to give for a first translation, and if they can advise me how much is reasonable to charge for a 10,792 word document.

Thanks in advance,

Lewis
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Vladimir Pochinov
Vladimir Pochinov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:29
English to Russian
Try and think in terms of an hourly rate Dec 5, 2019

Hi Lewis,

Think about an acceptable hourly rate, then try and estimate how many hours the translation might take. Multiply both figures and you will come up with the total price for the client. See how it compares to the amount you mentioned (£1079).

Regardless of what you do (translation, revision, review, proofreading, subtitling, etc.) and the unit used (per source word, per target word, per line, per minute of video), it boils down to the number of hours spent, and
... See more
Hi Lewis,

Think about an acceptable hourly rate, then try and estimate how many hours the translation might take. Multiply both figures and you will come up with the total price for the client. See how it compares to the amount you mentioned (£1079).

Regardless of what you do (translation, revision, review, proofreading, subtitling, etc.) and the unit used (per source word, per target word, per line, per minute of video), it boils down to the number of hours spent, and the resultant hourly rate.

Regards,
Vladimir
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Philippe Etienne
 
Vladimir Pochinov
Vladimir Pochinov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:29
English to Russian
See this news published on ProZ on 3 Nov 2019 Dec 5, 2019

https://www.proz.com/translation-news/?p=146372

 
Steve Robbie
Steve Robbie
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:29
Member (2017)
German to English
+ ...
Some other things to consider Dec 5, 2019

How much you expect to earn per hour is a good place to start. Other considerations might be:

- Is the subject-matter highly specialised (it's for a PhD), and do you have the relevant expertise?

- Is she only asking you, or is she going to get other translators to quote prices?

- How much can she afford? Is the work being funded by a research grant? £1079 is a lot for a PhD student to fork out from her own pocket.


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 15:29
Dutch to English
+ ...
Rate too high? Dec 5, 2019

I agree with Vlamidir's suggestion but I also wonder where you found the average rate of 0.10 GBP. Since this is your first job, you may not want to aim for the average right away. In addition, I would also take the client into account. A translation agency is one thing, a Ph.D. student who likely has little money to spare is quite another. I would suggest that you first check how the outcome of using Vlamidir's method compares to the average rate and see if you can go a bit lower than that.

 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Freelancers are no businesspersons: WHY going cheap from the START? Dec 5, 2019

Hello Lewis.

First, translation is not a wholesale mass-produce, but a unique product.
Second, unlike mere middlemen and spongers, the real end client just wants the job done (1) properly, (2) timely, and (3) as agreed. Could you?

Price = Money + Efforts + Seller's Image + Buyer's Image + Benefits [more gains] + Solutions [less costs] + Positive Emotions + Saved Time + Mutual Guarantee [risk management] + Future Cooperation + . . .

However, a
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Hello Lewis.

First, translation is not a wholesale mass-produce, but a unique product.
Second, unlike mere middlemen and spongers, the real end client just wants the job done (1) properly, (2) timely, and (3) as agreed. Could you?

Price = Money + Efforts + Seller's Image + Buyer's Image + Benefits [more gains] + Solutions [less costs] + Positive Emotions + Saved Time + Mutual Guarantee [risk management] + Future Cooperation + . . .

However, a sensible businessperson earning for living can't decide it detrimentally--at his own expense, going under.

1) Did they ask for a 'discount' at all? Motives? And yours?
2) Why must you provide a 'discount' for a timely and properly done translation? Will -75%, -10%, 0%, 100%, or 150% do nicely? And for you?
3) What would you get in return as a businessman and a translator?
4) When you will feel and consider yourself to be a professional? Why?
5) Any more gimmicks to substantiate and accept even more 'discounts', working for under $0.01/word?

And how exactly you are going to explain it to the eager client[s] that it was just a first-timer 'discount' whereas your usual/pro rate is $0.10+/word?
(How you are going to prove you are no bottom-feeder, I wonder?)

Please no ridiculous 'Everybody does it!' excuse for eventually everybody dies too, so what are you waiting for? Everybody ain't no virgin, though it's already Xmas)


* One more thing: IF a translator earns less than a McDonald's guy, then it must be a fancy hobby, a cheap jobbing, a disguised unemployment--or sheer absurd.
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Bernhard Sulzer
JPMedicalTrans
 
IrinaN
IrinaN
United States
Local time: 16:29
English to Russian
+ ...
@Lewis Dec 5, 2019

How did this job come about? Number of words, subject matter and a few other things call for extra caution, especially if received via impersonal email message.

Please get yourself familiar with the Scams and Scam Alert fora.


Grace Anderson
Sheila Wilson
Kevin Fulton
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
 
Vladimir Pochinov
Vladimir Pochinov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:29
English to Russian
Voluntary discounts in certain cases Dec 5, 2019

DZiW wrote:
1) Did they ask for a 'discount' at all? Motives? And yours?
2) Why must you provide a 'discount' for a timely and properly done translation? Will -75%, -10%, 0%, 100%, or 150% do nicely? And for you?
3) What would you get in return as a businessman and a translator?


From today's experience:

A client sent a bunch of documents stating that the total word count is about 20K, and asking me to advise the total cost and turnaround time. Upon examination, I found 4 identical sheets in one Excel file. Therefore, the actual word count proved to be closer to 13K.

1) Did they ask for a 'discount' at all? No, they did not
2) Why must you provide a 'discount' for a timely and properly done translation? It's not a discount per se, yet I might keep mum about it. Probably, I would have managed to get scot-free
3) What would you get in return as a businessman and a translator? The client's trust, respect and gratitude

Sorry, it's rather off topic. Just an illustration that the context may be very different in each case.


Sheila Wilson
Sabrina Bruna
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 22:29
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Lewis Dec 5, 2019

Lewis Blythe wrote:
It is a 10,792 word transcription of an interview for a PhD student, who needs it for her thesis.


The student is likely to balk at the price anyway, and request that you lower your rate. So be prepared that the rate at which you're going to be doing this job is going to be even lower than the rate that you quote. Or, the student is likely to realise that she does not, after all, need the entire interview translated. So you can try to get the job by quoting a lower rate (say, 0.08 GBP per word), and then be prepared to be "pressured" to lower it even more (to, say, GBP 0.05 per word).

I am unable to calculate discounts with fuzzy matches...


If it's an interview, there is unlikely to be many fuzzy matches.

...as the document has been transcribed automatically with a program, meaning there is no punctuation to effectively split the document into segments.


Well, I would suggest splitting it manually before you start the translation anyway. And if you really want to use Trados, then you can use Trados. But make sure you know how to merge and split segments, because translating an interview means not always translating one sentence in the source text with one sentence in the target text.

I have been advised by one of my teachers to not go for a very cheap option, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how much discount to give for a first translation...


Your teacher means well, but this isn't 100 000 words. You won't shoot yourself in the foot by charging a low rate for the experience.


[Edited at 2019-12-05 21:08 GMT]


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:29
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Some thoughts Dec 5, 2019

Lewis Blythe wrote:
According to the average price of translation/word (£0.10), I am able to charge £1079 at full price. However, as I am a student, and as it is my first paid translation, I am willing to do it for a lot less than full price.

That sounds quite a lot as an average.

However, I am unable to calculate discounts with fuzzy matches as the document has been transcribed automatically with a programme, meaning there is no punctuation

Does that set anyone else's alarm bells ringing? Why pay zero for an automated transcription and then be prepared to pay a human translator when MT is just as much a thing?

I may be over-cynical here, but I'd advise you to check out the scam centre here to see if anything seems familiar. It would be really sad to start off with a scam.


IrinaN
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:29
German to English
+ ...
You will need more time to give quality, therefore .... Dec 5, 2019

Supposing that I charge $0.18/word and you charge $0.18 (being in Canada I think in dollars). You will earn the same as I earn for the same job. You're a beginner, and I have translated for decades. To come close to the quality of my translation, it may take you 30 hours where it took me 10 hours. Therefore you are earning 33% of what I earn. As you get better, it will take you 20 hours, then 15, then 10, until you reach your optimum, so by starting with a proper fee from the start, you ar... See more
Supposing that I charge $0.18/word and you charge $0.18 (being in Canada I think in dollars). You will earn the same as I earn for the same job. You're a beginner, and I have translated for decades. To come close to the quality of my translation, it may take you 30 hours where it took me 10 hours. Therefore you are earning 33% of what I earn. As you get better, it will take you 20 hours, then 15, then 10, until you reach your optimum, so by starting with a proper fee from the start, you are still giving yourself a raise over time.

Also consider that you may want to hire an experienced professional to proofread your work. Doing that will improve the quality of your work, plus be a learning opportunity. This is also an expense for you.

What are your considerations for choosing to use a CAT tool? Is this a text with repetitive terminology that must always be worded the same way? Or are you only doing so because "that is what people do."?
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Katalin Horváth McClure
JPMedicalTrans
Tina Vonhof (X)
 
Lewis Blythe
Lewis Blythe  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for advice Dec 6, 2019

Hello all,

Thank you for your replies and for the advice!
I will start by taking a look at the documents and working out a price per hour - I worked out the original price per word by looking online, and according to Sure Languages, document translation prices range from £0.10 t
... See more
Hello all,

Thank you for your replies and for the advice!
I will start by taking a look at the documents and working out a price per hour - I worked out the original price per word by looking online, and according to Sure Languages, document translation prices range from £0.10 to £0.16 per word. (https://www.sure-languages.com/how-much-does-translation-cost/).

It was clear that the price of £1079 was going to be extortionate for a PhD student, and I had planned to accept any price she suggested. I asked her directly, but she replied saying that she is unsure how much she is willing to pay for it, as she has never had anything translated before. Therefore, I was wondering how much a reasonable minimum price would be for this length of document.

Thanks to those concerned about the possibility that I was being scammed. However, the students attends my university and was put in contact with me by a member of the Spanish department, so I am sure she's trustworthy.

Thanks again for your help,
Lewis
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Vladimir Pochinov
Vladimir Pochinov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:29
English to Russian
First translation jobs Dec 6, 2019

To build a professional portfolio for one's resume, many fellow translators start with pro bono work for charities, etc. Therefore, you may consider any amount from £0.00 upwards as an adequate compensation for the first professional assignment.



Lewis Blythe
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:29
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Pro bono Dec 6, 2019

Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
To build a professional portfolio for one's resume, many fellow translators start with pro bono work for charities, etc. Therefore, you may consider any amount from £0.00 upwards as an adequate compensation for the first professional assignment.

Pro bono is specifically work "for the public good". It provides a benefit for the community as a whole, so doesn't necessarily have to financially benefit the person involved in the translation for it to be a valid form of work.

Doing a translation for free or for an absurdly small amount, when that translation is going to be used by the other party for financial gain is a totally different matter, IMHO. That's the way to (a) encourage commercial enterprises to scam professional translators, and (b) lose the respect of your peers, who see it as totally unprofessional. It just encourages outsourcers to impose ever-lower rates.

However, translating a paper for a doctoral student falls somewhere between the two. Do they make money from their papers, directly? I honestly don't know - perhaps someone here knows the answer to that? Of course, their hope is that they'll gain great recognition and therefore funding and/or high salaries in the future. I personally feel happy with a student translator offering their services to a fellow student at their uni for half what they'd probably offer as a full-time translator. Maybe even less if they aren't going to be hit for social security contributions and tax on every cent.

@ Lewis: you need to bear in mind that the rate was quoted by a translation agency, who will outsource the work to a freelance translator. They need to earn some profit themselves so they'd be negotiating a rate of 20-50% less for them. I don't personally see €0.10 as too high (I charge €0.12 myself), but it is a little on the high side for a complete beginner.


Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:29
Member
English to French
A way to figure out a "minimum" Dec 6, 2019

Let's ignore the "business" aspect of this "Translation art and business" topic for a moment. As a student, you may be willing to do her a favour, and that's fine. But I find it odd that you ask professional translators for guidance, because they work for a living and a sustainable business.

As an exercise, let's throw figures:

You want to deliver something usable to your colleague. You will need at least 24 hours (a random figure, just to be optimistic). That's 4 days
... See more
Let's ignore the "business" aspect of this "Translation art and business" topic for a moment. As a student, you may be willing to do her a favour, and that's fine. But I find it odd that you ask professional translators for guidance, because they work for a living and a sustainable business.

As an exercise, let's throw figures:

You want to deliver something usable to your colleague. You will need at least 24 hours (a random figure, just to be optimistic). That's 4 days at full blast - you will have the opportunity to learn what charging "only" 6 hours a day means at a productivity rate of 400 source words translated per hour.
Make it 5 days just in case.

You're a student. Maybe nowadays you need 30 pounds/day to live on a shoe string as a student.
From hand to mouth, you can charge £150 to cover 5 days of living expenses. But don't tell anybody you earned so much, otherwise you may lose a few tenners on tax.

That's £5/hour. If you like translating more than dish washing, it deserves a few sacrifices indeed.

Let's call it a minimum. Without invoice.

Philippe
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